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[smjjames]

Yeah, good point Mitcl, except the US didn't want to get pulled into another clusterfuck, but our attempt to avoid one ended up 'butterfly effecting' into another clusterfuck.

Still, given how our intervention in the region tends to end up making things worse, it could very well have become a clusterfuck ANYWAY if we did intervene.

Also, ISIS invading Israel? Are you kidding me? Israel has fought all her neighbors at once, with inferior numbers and weaponry and a handful of planes. These jokers that were ignored by assad to be unleashed on a neighboring unstable state wouldn't get past the border safe zone. There's a reason they're attacking Iraq, because it's a pathetically weak state now. Saddam's Iraq wasn't weak, America's Iraq very definitely is, and can fall to a Taliban-like invasion at any moment thanks to pathetic fundamentalist leadership making the divisions in Iraq worse.

Probably wouldn't stop ISIS from trying, and Israel would also have terror attacks and maybe rocket attacks coming from them. I doubt ISIS would be as willing to negotiate as Hamas and Fatah are.

And come on, Iraq fell swiftly to the US military. Okay granted perhaps it was weak in comparison to the US military.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

I'm mostly noting that due to an inherent opposition of Israeli forces to support a side in Extremist Muslim-Fundamentalist Muslim hostilities. That's not why we have a mandatory draft, it's to defend the home, not pick a side in shit like this because US/Israel foreign policy consists of 'hope they like us after we ignore them'. But in all honestly unless Israel wants a 2001-Afghanistan-like-Iraq on their fringes, she'd better do anything to help. I know there's plenty of air power to spare, no need for boots on the ground.

Also, our propaganda and our warfare tactics convinced you Iraq was weak, but not many countries can have an all out ground war for ten years and not completely implode. Just because the US is like, so awesome at annihilating other people's armies doesn't make the previous state of their military bad. If that was a weak Iraq.. Then that's even worse. Iraq is a major power player. We can't wish and watch for a completely anarchist Iraq, like it's turning out.

I will also not entertain the notion of ISIS attacking Israel. Israel will turn any areas where any attacks come from into a crater. Any forces that attempt to cross the border or invade proper will be 90% annihilated and 10% captured to find out all future info they need. Israel will not fuck around if it's becoming a real issue.

That's even assuming Mossad hasn't already infiltrated this organization.

[10ebbor10]

It might not have been a weak Iraq, but it certainly was weakened.

[burningpet]

I believe that ISIS was destined to be formed and gain its power with or without US/Israel/Turkey/whateva aid to the moderates. the sad fact is that only a support for Assad could have kept ISIS down and leave Syria at relative peace. yet obviously Israel will never support a brutal regime that directly finance and train a terrorist group such as hizbulla.

[10ebbor10]

Tyrannical and brutal regimes that don't fund anti-Israeli terrorist groups however?

[Sinistar]

Talk about irony.

[Descan]

You know, I wanted the Arabic states to unite back together, but... Not quite like this.

I was hoping secular, and more "United Arabic States" or something, to give the Arab nations more control of their lives than just "We got the oil! Back off!" and also less dictator-y, not... not a radical caliphate built on the bloodshed of thousands. :/

[Dutchling]

Well, it seems like "dictator-y" is in this case synonymous to "best case scenario".

[Sheb]

They tried back in the days, it kinda didn't work for a variety of reasons. Mostly because Nasser was quite the egocentric type.

burningpet, are you really comparing ISIS to a secular resistance movement like Fatah? Or is it yet more of your irony.

[burningpet]

They tried back in the days, it kinda didn't work for a variety of reasons. Mostly because Nasser was quite the egocentric type.

burningpet, are you really comparing ISIS to a secular resistance movement like Fatah? Or is it yet more of your irony.

Is there a difference between ISIS and Hamas?

Tyrannical and brutal regimes that don't fund anti-Israeli terrorist groups however?

So long as they pay in time?

[Zangi]

I don't believe Israel/US has the staying power to stick around for a few decades to fix things...  Well maybe if Israel gets to keep it afterwards.  Though fixing it in that case would mean encouraging its inhabitants to move out and setting up settlements...

[Sheb]

Is there a difference between ISIS and Hamas?

Yes. One of them is on a rampage across the Middle East, the other, while extremist and with a terrorist past, agreed to a ceasefire with Israel, was democratically elected (then ousted from the West Bank) and is generally nicer than ISIS. Which doesn't mean that they're nice.

Or was this yet more of your irony?

[palsch]

You know, I wanted the Arabic states to unite back together, but... Not quite like this.

I was hoping secular, and more "United Arabic States" or something, to give the Arab nations more control of their lives than just "We got the oil! Back off!" and also less dictator-y, not... not a radical caliphate built on the bloodshed of thousands. :/

Arab League?

[burningpet]

Democratically elected is a term devoid of any substance, especially when the first thing you do after being elected, with the close supervision of mr kalachnikov and his dear little friend gustav, is to throw your political rivals off the rooftops. Assad was also democratically elected, so what?

Past terrorists? i fail to see how kidnapping and killing 3 teenagers is not considered a terrorist act.

Hamas and ISIS share many goals, the most prominent is the declaration of an islamic caliphate in the middle east through violent actions. many believe that they share more than the same aspirations and that they have cooperated in Syria and Sinai and perhaps in iraq as well.

[Sinistar]

Speaking of those 3 young people, I'm surprised no-one said a word about it in this topic in the last few days.

Apparently, their bodies have been found. For shame.

Though as for Hamas being involved in it - apart from Netanyahu running his mouth off, has there been any actual evidence that would point to the real perpetrators? I mean, among the hundreds of arrested, there's bound to be some trace found, eh?

Make no mistake, I'm not saying Hamas is a white-clean flower selling company, but kidnapping (and killing) 3 unimportant people seems a bit silly even by their standards.