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Author Topic: Egypt and the world and Libya - Now without Ukraine!  (Read 372924 times)

Gorjo MacGrymm

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Re: Egypt and the world
« Reply #2070 on: April 04, 2011, 03:47:17 pm »

Thanks for the answers Puzzlemaker.  Your ideas are similar to mine.

As far as it being a NAto thing.  Well, its not officially a NATO treaty function.  No member states are forced to participate.  The NATO treaty was not invoked (AFAIK).  Thats why Germany pulled out of the action early.  America wouldnt by treaty law ( i think ) be forced to act militarily.
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olemars

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Re: Egypt and the world
« Reply #2071 on: April 04, 2011, 04:14:45 pm »

US strike aircraft will remain on stand by, NATO command can request them if the need should arise. It's not like they're flying planes back to the US either, most of the US planes used in Libya came from squadrons permanently deployed to Italy, Germany and the UK. The exception is mostly the heavy bombers, but those aren't really needed anymore since they've probably run out of fixed targets of any importance.

I think NATO are attacking a good bit more targets than gets picked up by media, at least a few dozen every day, but the big question mark is why they seem to be ignoring the besieged mountain towns southwest.
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Gorjo MacGrymm

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Re: Egypt and the world
« Reply #2072 on: April 04, 2011, 04:57:19 pm »

I just read that NATO is specifically asking for our (the US's) A-10's and C-130 (gunships)'s for close combat support.  The US is the only power capable of doing so effectively from low altitudes because the rest of NATO does not use those aircraft.  Of course, they also might be looking for a way to blame future mistakes similar to the 13 dead rebels on the US instead of a Europe led NATO.  'Course, thats my own cynicism at work.  :P
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Phmcw

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Re: Egypt and the world
« Reply #2073 on: April 06, 2011, 12:25:52 pm »

http://www.lemonde.fr/libye/article/2011/04/06/libye-pourquoi-les-insurges-pietinent_1504014_1496980.html
A very interesting Q&A from a journalist in Lybia (in French).

Regarding what Gorjo said, the EU seems to have trouble to mount the operation alone.
I cannot find any dedicated air to ground fighter in any European Air-forces. And Helicopters seems useless.

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Puzzlemaker

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Re: Egypt and the world
« Reply #2074 on: April 08, 2011, 08:09:57 am »

What do you guys think is going to happen with Libya?  It looks like it's going nowhere fast.
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Lovechild

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Re: Egypt and the world
« Reply #2075 on: April 08, 2011, 10:39:34 am »

My guess is that neither side can win this through force of arms. Eventually the morale of one side will give in and they will surrender, flee the country, or gradually switch side. [/armchairgeneral]
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Urist McDepravity

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Re: Egypt and the world
« Reply #2076 on: April 08, 2011, 10:53:45 am »

What do you guys think is going to happen with Libya?  It looks like it's going nowhere fast.
Well, either NATO will send ground troops there and take all loyal Tripolitania cities by force or Kirenaika will become de-facto separate state, and Quaddafi clan will keep ruling west part of Libya.

On a sidenote, some Russian journalists including well-known in ru-net Dmitry Steshin (krig42) were seized by rebels today and held captive w/out explaining reasons for it, http://rt.com/news/russian-journalists-seized-ajdabiya/
Seems like rebels are very afraid of independent investigations.
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olemars

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Re: Egypt and the world
« Reply #2077 on: April 08, 2011, 11:07:57 am »

They stopped letting reporters go all the way to the frontline since they kept broadcasting every move the rebels made (aided by the poorly trained fighters among them who happily explained every detail of the plans). Plus the reporters were being a threat to themselves, there's lots of clips from al-jazeera and such with shells and rockets landing way closer than comfort.

At least the russian journos (and russians are very unpopular in east libya right now) were treated rather well, unlike the 4 NYT journalists who were taken by gaddafi troops earlier, or the ten or so who are currently in captivity by the regime.
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The Doctor

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Re: Egypt and the world
« Reply #2078 on: April 08, 2011, 11:48:33 am »

Depravity, you're a Serb! D:
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Urist McDepravity

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Re: Egypt and the world
« Reply #2079 on: April 08, 2011, 01:30:20 pm »

Seems like actions of ministry of foreign affairs and NATO ambassador had effect and captured journalists were released.
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Plus the reporters were being a threat to themselves
These two are known for their craziness. They were reporters during Chechnya wars, Georgia war (Alex Kots was even wounded in ambush and received medal of valor) and many other 'hot spots', so its not like Libyan low-intensity conflict is something too dangerous for them.
Depravity, you're a Serb! D:
No, I'm Russian, but thats close.
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Jopax

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Re: Egypt and the world
« Reply #2080 on: April 17, 2011, 07:32:23 am »

Did we win?
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Bouchart

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Re: Egypt and the world
« Reply #2081 on: April 17, 2011, 11:18:02 am »

Did we win?

Which side are we on again?  The dictators or the Islamists?
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Shinziril

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Re: Egypt and the world
« Reply #2082 on: April 17, 2011, 12:21:31 pm »

I think we're on the side of the civilians, who don't want to be blown up.  The doctrine basically goes "you see a tank pointing its main gun towards unarmed civilians, it gets blown up," with a few caveats that you are supposed to minimize civilian casualties.  Theoretically if the rebels started attacking civilians we'd destroy them too; fortunately they aren't stupid.

How are things going?  The rebels need a few months to make themselves into something like a proper military rather than a bunch of admittedly enthusiastic teenagers and a few proper soldiers, but they'll get there eventually.  They are also getting weapons and supplies from various countries.  I think they'll win, but it could take a bit.  I'd say a few months, maybe a bit longer. 
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Il Palazzo

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Re: Egypt and the world
« Reply #2083 on: April 17, 2011, 12:33:41 pm »

I think we're on the side of the civilians, who don't want to be blown up.
Oh, that's nice. What if there's no clear distinction between a civilian and a non-civilian?
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Shinziril

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Re: Egypt and the world
« Reply #2084 on: April 17, 2011, 12:35:22 pm »

Check if they have weapons?  I didn't say it was easy.  The rebels who do have weapons can take care of themselves.
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