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Author Topic: Egypt and the world and Libya - Now without Ukraine!  (Read 372926 times)

MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Egypt and the world
« Reply #2010 on: April 02, 2011, 02:54:13 pm »

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RedKing

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Re: Egypt and the world
« Reply #2011 on: April 02, 2011, 03:46:35 pm »

LOL. Although veeeeery interesting that he had Belarus as the next "level" after Libya. Maybe I need to look into Belarussian domestic politics a bit more...

FWIW, it looks Ivory Coast is next in line for shit-fan-hitting. Although as I've stated before in this thread, that could be considered just normal routine in West Africa, seperate from the 2011 revolutions.

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olemars

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Re: Egypt and the world
« Reply #2012 on: April 02, 2011, 04:25:42 pm »

Elections in sub-saharan Africa do seem to mostly be about deciding who gets to do the coup d'etat this year.

Dunno about Belarus, there was a bit of rioting after the last "election" but is generally a pretty quiet place (due to all the eavesdroppers). Hard to tell what might be simmering. It's a country that noone really knows (or cares) much about.
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Puzzlemaker

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The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of the mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one.

Urist McDepravity

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Re: Egypt and the world
« Reply #2014 on: April 02, 2011, 11:21:05 pm »

I'm honestly rooting for the protesters here - I believe EVERYONE has a right to live and work without fear of a repressive government coming down on them.
There are videos prooving that these 'protesters' torture and lynch anyone, who even remotely supports Qaddafi. Shouldn't EVERYONE have right to support whoever he likes?
Radical Islam is not about freedom, its about forcing its agenda upon everyone. And if you happen to not like it - they will murder you in very painful way.
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Puzzlemaker

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Re: Egypt and the world
« Reply #2015 on: April 02, 2011, 11:43:13 pm »

It seems radical Islam has taken a back seat.  I think the radicals were just as surprised as we were when this started happening.
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The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of the mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one.

MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Egypt and the world
« Reply #2016 on: April 02, 2011, 11:47:48 pm »

I'm honestly rooting for the protesters here - I believe EVERYONE has a right to live and work without fear of a repressive government coming down on them.
There are videos prooving that these 'protesters' torture and lynch anyone, who even remotely supports Qaddafi. Shouldn't EVERYONE have right to support whoever he likes?
Radical Islam is not about freedom, its about forcing its agenda upon everyone. And if you happen to not like it - they will murder you in very painful way.
While I won't deny any of that (although I'd like proof on the torture and lynch part), this is exactly why western nations must help the protestors. There are both democratic and theocratic elements to it, and by helping them we can hopefuly tip the balance in the favor of democracy rather than allowing Gaddafi to crush the rebellion or a sucessful rebellion turning into Iran 2.0. All of these people want to be free in some form or another, it just happens that one of these forms is being free to start an opressive theocratic regime. That's not a reason to let Gaddafi crush them, that's a reason to help the protestors and in doing so convince a larger portion of them of the merits of the very democratic nations that are helping them.
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
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Bauglir

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Re: Egypt and the world
« Reply #2017 on: April 02, 2011, 11:57:02 pm »

Shouldn't EVERYONE have right to support whoever he likes?

Actually, no.

Not every person's position is worthy of support. For instance, if it's objectively incorrect. I'm not making an assertion on the specific positions here, but what you said is far too broad a statement.
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“What are you doing?”, asked Minsky. “I am training a randomly wired neural net to play Tic-Tac-Toe” Sussman replied. “Why is the net wired randomly?”, asked Minsky. “I do not want it to have any preconceptions of how to play”, Sussman said.
Minsky then shut his eyes. “Why do you close your eyes?”, Sussman asked his teacher.
“So that the room will be empty.”
At that moment, Sussman was enlightened.

Urist Imiknorris

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Re: Egypt and the world
« Reply #2018 on: April 02, 2011, 11:58:55 pm »

Shouldn't EVERYONE have right to support whoever he likes?

Actually, no.

Not every person's position is worthy of support.
Notable examples include Joseph Stalin.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Egypt and the world
« Reply #2019 on: April 03, 2011, 12:11:15 am »

Shouldn't EVERYONE have right to support whoever he likes?

Actually, no.

Not every person's position is worthy of support.
Notable examples include Joseph Stalin.
A rather vital part of the democratic process is that everyone in it is elected by the will of the people and that they give up power willingly once their term has ended (which it must). Gaddafi is neither.
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
Quote
No Gods, No Masters.

Gorjo MacGrymm

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Re: Egypt and the world
« Reply #2020 on: April 03, 2011, 12:23:42 am »

Shouldn't EVERYONE have right to support whoever he likes?

Actually, no.

Not every person's position is worthy of support.
Notable examples include Joseph Stalin.
A rather vital part of the democratic process is that everyone in it is elected by the will of the people and that they give up power willingly once their term has ended (which it must). Gaddafi is neither.
I think Monsieur Depravity is right.  Just because some like Stalin or Ghaddaffi offends Bauglirs (and mine for that matter) objective principles, doesnt remove the right for someone else to peacebly support him.  The very idea that someone can remove that right is in itself hilariously hipocritical based on the aforementioned reasons for doing so.
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Ampersand

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Re: Egypt and the world
« Reply #2021 on: April 03, 2011, 01:11:50 am »

Certainly they have the right to peaceably support him, just as people had the right to peaceably support Hitler, or whomever you want to use an example, and while yes, is is wrong for those people to get harassed, injured, or killed for their support of whomever, it may be, the actions taken against Gaddafi are not about his supporters rights, or his detractors rights, it's about his rights.

As a ruler, he has gleefully danced across the line twice, and as such treating him as a co-equal leader of a sovereign nation, as opposed to the thuggish strongman despot that he is, is disingenuous at best.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Egypt and the world
« Reply #2022 on: April 03, 2011, 01:13:44 am »

As a ruler, he has gleefully danced across the line twice, and as such treating him as a co-equal leader of a sovereign nation, as opposed to the thuggish strongman despot that he is, is disingenuous at best.
Only twice? I lost count of how many times he danced across the line a month ago
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
Quote
No Gods, No Masters.

Ampersand

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Re: Egypt and the world
« Reply #2023 on: April 03, 2011, 01:18:16 am »

As a ruler, he has gleefully danced across the line twice, and as such treating him as a co-equal leader of a sovereign nation, as opposed to the thuggish strongman despot that he is, is disingenuous at best.
Only twice? I lost count of how many times he danced across the line a month ago

Was mainly refering to this
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Egypt and the world
« Reply #2024 on: April 03, 2011, 01:19:33 am »

As a ruler, he has gleefully danced across the line twice, and as such treating him as a co-equal leader of a sovereign nation, as opposed to the thuggish strongman despot that he is, is disingenuous at best.
Only twice? I lost count of how many times he danced across the line a month ago

Was mainly refering to this.
I know you were. What I'm saying is that Gaddafi has gone Beyond The Impossible in crossing the line too many times to count.
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
Quote
No Gods, No Masters.
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