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[malroth]

When selecting on what to take with me to found a new fortress,  it seems a much more affordable option to take 3 copper and tin bars and to smith my picks and axes myself upon arrival  than to pay a premium for the no quality castoffs you embark with from the mountian home.  Is this generally a worthwhile choice, or does the time you save not having to build a forge instantly worth the extra points?

[ext0l]

I hate the micromanaging of forging weapons and tools.
Thus, I always bring some picks and axes in my embark.

[Girlinhat]

I actually bring ore instead of bars.  Casserite and... that other ore, I forget.  Much cheaper, and I can bring 50 of each for 100 bronze bars.  Spam that into 100 bronze shields or 100 Large Serrated Disks and you've got enough trading profit to last you years.

Ninja's response: I bring 1 copper axe and 1 copper pick for my solo miner and cutter.

[Uristocrat]

I actually bring ore instead of bars.  Casserite and... that other ore, I forget.  Much cheaper, and I can bring 50 of each for 100 bronze bars.  Spam that into 100 bronze shields or 100 Large Serrated Disks and you've got enough trading profit to last you years.

Ninja's response: I bring 1 copper axe and 1 copper pick for my solo miner and cutter.

These days, there are veins of everything if you choose an embark that has the right layers.  I'd bring a pick and a good miner (or two), then make more picks, axes, etc. on site.

Tetrahedrite, though, is the better type of copper ore you might be thinking of, because it gives a bit of silver as well as copper.

[Girlinhat]

I can't remember the ore I use, since it's on my saved embark profile and I don't bother to re-check it.  I just know that I can pop out 100 bronze bars and a whole lot of trading power in a hurry.  Seems to be also rather fun for the attacks I get!

[NecroRebel]

Tetrahedrite isn't a good idea to bring on embark unless you're making bismuth bronze, and that isn't really worthwhile. Tetrahedrite is more expensive than native copper and malachite, and you don't get the chance at extra silver unless you're smelting the ore into bars, and if you're making bronze anyway that's just a waste of fuel and time.

Bringing raw materials rather than finished goods on embark has a few advantages.

• Cheaper: You save points you can use on other resources.
• Better quality: If you invest in a proficient weaponsmith, you get significantly better equipment for early soldiering.
• Fast created wealth: You're producing relatively high-value items right off the bat, and, in addition, aren't having relatively high-value imported goods from the beginning. This is beneficial in that it attracts more early migrants and gives you something to trade to the first caravan.

It also has some disadvantages, however. Time, for one, is a factor; you might not get underground until mid-spring or later. Also, fast created wealth can be a disadvantage, as it attracts more early migrants, and that means more mouths to feed and booze. Combined with a likelihood of a relatively late start to your farms, you might have a bit of trouble with your food supplies during the first autumn and/or winter.

[Dorf3000]

Is this generally a worthwhile choice, or does the time you save not having to build a forge instantly worth the extra points?

If you bring enough fuel, ore, an anvil and a stone or two to make forges/smelters, you can make a lot of metal armor and picks/axes for everyone and it'll cost less points than bringing them on embark.  If you only plan on making a couple of picks and an axe to start, it's not worth it.  Even the dabbling weaponsmith/armorsmith skill you'll get isn't necessary at the beginning, as moods only start happening after 20 dwarves.

Picks and axes on embark is a lot quicker, and you really don't need to save embark points since you start with more than enough.  Do it only for the challenge, or if you think you'll need a bunch of fully-armored dwarves before the end of spring.  Or possibly if you have trouble making trade goods from wood and rocks

[brucemo]

I go heavy on skills and booze and food. If I changed the load out beyond that it would probably be in order to make something like iron serrated discs to buy out the first caravan, and not bring a stonecrafter, so as to bring a second military cadre, in order to try to speed military training.

I agree that unless you have role playing reasons it seems kind of pointless to build a pick and an axe from scratch so you can bring more beer.

[Jake]

Personally, I'd rather trade the anvil in for more seeds, timber and provisions and save my forging for when I've got the dwarfpower to do it on a large scale.

[slothen]

If I'm low on points I will max out skills, then instead of picks bring lots of cheap logs, an anvil and a bit of ore.  I don't find it takes long at all.  With the saved points I can bring more booze and food, and it all goes rather quickly at the beginning since my dwarves have skills.  Those that don't spend the downtime in the beginning foraging plants.

[Lagslayer]

You can bring the raw materials to make stuff and save yourself some embark points, but unless you are in an area with limited resources like a glacier, you shouldn't need a ton of extra supplies. Though, If you are bringing a weaponsmith or an armorsmith, it may benefit you to let him make the item because it can have better than base quality. These things take time to make, however.

[Girlinhat]

I always bring 1 pick and 1 axe, both copper, because I only ever use one miner and one tree cutter, or I could use more cutters because that's a low-priority job but you get the idea.  I don't bring any skilled weapon or armor smiths, as I tend to rely on migrants with some skill, and instead bring a good farmer and a good brewer (though next time, I'm not packing a brewer) and then lots of copper and tine ore, which gets spammed into a bunch of shields to train up whatever migrant smith arrives and trade for goods at the first caravan.

Generally speaking, I get my fort running first, bucket brigade a 3x3 farmland underground, get plump helmets, a still or two, and once I'm not in danger of dying of thirst (which involves a lot of barrels and a lot of warehouse space), then I build a forge and burner, and get some shields or disks made.  I can usually have my small farm up before summer, and then expand into a larger farm later, and get my ore processed around late summer or mid autumn, with a few weeks to spare before the caravan.

[brucemo]

You get 1274 points.
14 proficient skills: 490 (14 x 35)
Anvil: 100
malachite: 6
hematite: 24
flux: 6
wood: 6
pick: 44
axe: 68
drinks: 2
plump helmet: 4
cheap meat: 2

It may make sense to bring 6 military dwarves and proficient armorsmith/weaponsmith.

You could get a pick and an axe for 2 x malachite and 2 x  wood = 24 points as opposed to 112, then spend 96 points on 4 x hematite and 24 on 4 x flux (if necessary).  This would cost you a little more than bringing an axe and a pick, but you could make 4 x steel serrated discs, which would probably be worth 25-50k dwarfbucks, enough to buy out caravans for years without doing anything else.

Maybe there are plenty of points for a pick and an axe, but the real point is that you can fund your operation for years for like 120 embark points and a dwarf with skills that are very useful anyway, while the other 6 dwarves can do whatever.  You could live in an 11 x 11 barracks with a bed and a food stockpile in it until the first caravan comes, training military skills the whole time, and get your other skills from immigrants.  You could bring another 18 malachite for 108 points and equip these 6 guys with a copper axe, a copper shield, and a copper hat with pointy spikes on it, and who knows what they'd accomplish.