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[Demicus]

Very well said Kohaku.

Also empty rewards tend to have another drawback that seen in gaming communities, elitism. Sure it exists in gaming communities regardless, but empty rewards intensifies it, gives the elitists fuel for their flames. I agree on the tutorial mode though. That would be an excellent addition to the game. Make it much easier to recruit new players, provide it's done properly.

[zwei]

Tutorial can be modded into campaign. Good modders can make epic campaign.

Campaign that can be "won".

"Forst with purporse" are going to help a lot, but lets see how sandboxy players like it when liaison starts to *demand* regular shipments of steel bars or that you start pottery industry as you were supposed to...

[NW_Kohaku]

I'm betting that there will be some sort of means of controlling what sorts of demands are made of the player, or an option to just turn it off, entirely.  Toady wouldn't force something like that totally down the throats of the players.

[Kogut]

And how to open DF for larger audience? Just fix interface. But for me it is not so terrible*, and the Toady is getting donations, no me.

*IMHO the new ribbon interface in microsoft office is worse than DF interface.

[harborpirate]

I believe there are dev goals or power goals or some other sort of long term goal that includes "scenarios", and that is more likely to be a rewarding experience than miscellaneous achievement awards.

Achievements aren't any better at motivating players than an open sandbox, because the player likely doesn't know what they are.

Scenarios will be a good thing for players who need motivation or at least need some way to know that they've won.

[DStecks]

I, personally don't think achievements are horrible. They are a thing, a tool, they can be good or they can be bad. Good achievements reward players for doing something badass or hitting a significant milestone. I can already hear you day, "reward how?" which demonstrates that you clearly don't understand why achievements are popular. The reward is in the game acknowledging your feat. You can think of it as a digital pat on the back. The reward in in the encouragement you feel from the reinforcement of your abilities.

That said, I do not feel that achievements would be appropriate for Dwarf Fortress. Dwarf Fortress is a game where, in theory, things behave as they would in reality and actions have consequences. DF is a very organic system, which is why you can safely tell people who have never played the game about how you lost your fort and they'll still get it, because for the most part DF works like real life. Achievements, on the other hand, are very artificial, and would seriously detract from the organic flow of play; in that you might find yourself doing things not for the betterment of your fort or for fun, but to get an achievement. Meta-gaming (playing using the knowledge that you're playing a game) is not a desirable activity in a game like Dwarf Fortress where events are very internally consistent.

TL;DR: Achievement don't suck, but they also don't belong in DF.

[Neonivek]

I can imagine rewards for certain things... but those are assigned for characters and fortresses based on things their civilisation gives out as well as records being kept in the history book. Or heck the gods themselves rewarding you for your own achievements, since that did happen in mythology.

But rewards for the players themselves? That is rather lame.

Well Ok, I can understand unlockables (I mean goblins I'd see as tough to play as).

[zwei]

Rewards can be organic too...

Succesfull player fort shoud influece world in way that rewards player in subsequent forts: For example by providing ability to import steel to their new forts or embark with high-quality items produced there and traded away to parent civ.

Imagine first fort where you embark with little more than "bare buts" because your civ is resources starved - just iron anvil and copper pickaxe (only two necesities to start fort) with some plump helmets and towercap logs. In this embark you build mining settlement and "unlock" some ores, rocks and metals. Over course of several forts, you build up your civ and gain ability to embark with variety of food, products, resources, tame animals, etc, etc...

[Nopkar]

Honestly, the theory of "Unlockables" or a "Reward" system get's away from what Dwarf Fortress is.

It's a Sandbox. The true value of a sandbox game is that it gives the player a massive chest of features and tools and says "Go get em' Tiger!"

Minecraft is a sandbox game...do what you want, when you want, how you want with no restrictions on your thoughts or desires by some overarching force that pushes you to perform a certain task.

Garry's Mod is the same. Huge chest of features, no rhyme or reason, meaning no restrictions whatsoever other than the player's own desires or thoughts.

- The Reward system introduces a "rhyme AND reason" to perform a task. Gain 5,000,000 in total accumulated wealth? easy! I'll smooth and engrave every stone in my fortress! not because I'm hell-bent on making the best fort ever, but because I want that achievement/reward.

It's achievements and rewards that break up what a Sandbox game like Dwarf Fortress are all about. They're not catastrophic so to speak, but they are very detrimental to the values the game was built on.

Since this is a discussion, on the other hand you could have player driven rewards...In the form of a Forgotten Beast skull mounted and displayed above your throne room, that Artifact Cotton Candy Hammer that was made displayed in all it's glory in your dining hall...these things allow the player the option, but never explicitly  informed that they've gained a reward, the player determines if it's a reward or not.

For me it's outfitting my 10-15 Dwarves in the military with full steel plate...why is that rewarding? I don't know, it's just something that drives me in my gameplay until that point...and then I wander off to one of my other self propelled goals, whatever they may be.

[Max White]

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/2758-Achievements
Go watch that, then come back so we can talk on a nice educated level.
Ok so the first type is just bad, agreed? Good.
The second type dosn't realy work here, because everything is optional! After world gen, the rest is up to you, and trying everything is very rewarding for itself. You don't need extra inspiration to try bee keeping for the achivment, you darn well want to do it because you can!
The third type still dosn't work, because in a game like DF, it is the first type. Exploring all modes of play is what we do, we shouldn't need a trophie to tell us what those modes are. Finding new and strange ways to play is part of the fun!

[Tiefblau]

It would be nice to have an early achievement system that guide new players that don't even know what to do at first.

Stuff like survive first year without having Delicious Carp FUN, survive second year without Berserking Starving Raving Mad FUN, survive third year without Goblin chopchop FUN.
OR, make losing as achievements, so it will satisfy new player's deathly curiosity and keep them interested in many ways to have FUN. I think we are all very familiar with first achievement in version 2010 "Water Death". (oops did someone forget to close that flood gate that leads to a river that's muddying up your farm?)

Do we plan to have a BORING tutorial mode yet? Where's the FUN in that? However, most of the players out there are Tall/large Humans (maybe not drunk, just maybe)

[AngleWyrm]

The difference between directed and sandbox games is in the level of definition of the finish of the game. Dwarf Fortress is a sandbox game because it does not explicitly define a goal.

But there is a fuzzy goal. That goal is to build a thriving dwarf fortress. This goal can be adequately achieved within the first three years of playing, after which the game is basically over.

There are objectives which the player may choose to obtain: Reaching maximum population, conquering hell, and getting a king/queen. These are what seem like achievements to me; unnecessary endeavors just to say we've done them.

[Serrational]

My personal opinion is one of : Achievments would make me focus on doing something, I prefer the thrill of thinking of ridiculously impractical suitably dwarfy things to do. A purpose wouldfrustrate me further with the game if I failed to get it, driving me away from re-playing the game.
I don't like this idea in any way, to be blunt.

[G-Flex]

Now, to get back to why "directed goals" are a bad idea... Trophy/Achievement unlocks are things which just encourage players to do things they don't like simply for the measely reward of an icon being put in color in a menu that only they will ever care about.  Almost nobody actually goes for the platinum trophy, because nobody will stick with a game long enough to get it.  They want to play the game long enough to have fun, then move on when they're sick of it.

To add to this:

DF is about emergent goals. It's about finding out what crazy things you can do, and how to solve problems in creative ways. A list of "achievements" is completely unnecessary when the game focuses so much on emergent gameplay and so many of those emergent elements won't even be predicted by the developer (or much of the community) beforehand.

A list of cookie-cutter goals to achieve would cause players to just focus on doing arbitrary things from a list even when they have no real reason to, instead of actually being creative, or solving problems on their own. Most of the really good DF stories involve the kinds of player behavior that just doesn't suit this, and this would improve nothing, and would cheapen actual creativity by rewarding you for things that are less creative.

[RiderofDark]

If any sort of achievement system were to go in place, I think it would be best suited in-world, in-game. Basically, take what we've got and make it better. Achievements outside the game are worthless, as previous posters have pointed out. DF provides an incredibly dynamic playing experience.

Using a kitchen as an example. Currently, even a legendary cook will only have himself to rely on. Upgrade a kitchen, get a couple of other people to prepare ingredients, then let the legendary throw it all together. Business expansion, if you will. Some of the things that could be part of the kitchen upgrade path: knife set (how in the hell does a dwarf finely mince mushrooms with their fists?!), granite/marble/fancy counter top, SPICES/SEASONINGS (which could be its very own suggestion, in which case a rack to hold 'em), blocks to expand the kitchen workspace, more staff for meal prep, an oven/furnace to bake everything inside of. Take the newly released vegetable oil and use that as part of the cooking process.