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[Kay12]

Just a couple of suggestion for improving car chases.

As far as I know, chase-wise, the only difference between cars is the bonus they give to driving. What if this were to be converted to a more diverse set of variables...
Mass
Handling
Speed
Durability
Protection

Drivers can now attempt to destroy/shake off a single vehicle in a chase by ramming. Vehicles with high mass are better at this. Light vehicles driven by bad drivers are not likely to survive this!

Speed is the vehicle's ability to outrun chasers, obviously, and handling determines the vehicle's ability to stay on the road even in tight situations.

Durability would kick in if a vehicle damage system were to be implemented. However, I find protection to be rather necessary in any case - it would determine the chances of the vehicle absorbing shots instead of the passengers.

I might jot together an implementation for the greater good this week.


EDIT: Forgot one thing I was supposed to put there as well: offroad boolean. Vehicles that can go offroad can... well, go offroad, greatly hindering the enemy's chances at chasing unless they have a suitable vehicle as well. Jeeps, SUVs (and pickups? I'm no expert on cars) would have this flag. However, since most of the game's action happens inside an urban area, this can't be attempted until an opportunity presents itself (chances of this happening per turn increase as chase goes on).

[Jonathan S. Fox]

If we add the number of people it can carry, we can include motorcycles, and make sportscars differ from vans and SUVs in another way.

All this would have to be very intuitive. I think it would great to give weapons, armor, and vehicles a way to see their stats (example stats given -- I'm not a car expert):

Sports car
Mass:     **          Durability: **
Handling: *****    Protection: **
Speed:    *****    Riders:     Two

SUV
Mass:     ****     Durability: ****
Handling: **        Protection: ***
Speed:    ***      Riders:     Six

Van
Mass:     ****     Durability: ****
Handling: **        Protection: ****
Speed:    **        Riders:     Six

HMMWV
Mass:     *****   Durability: *****
Handling: **        Protection: *****
Speed:    *          Riders:     Six

[Gimmick Account]

Hehe, I like this idea. If there's room for it on the interface, you could have the game display a road (stretching from the left edge of the screen to the right, and with a scrolling centerline), on which cars could be placed (as coloured blocks, similiar to the first Police Quest game) according to their logical positions (obviously, fleeing cars would start the chase ahead of their pursuers, the initial distance depending on vehicle speed and driving skill, etc.).

Actions like running an enemy car off the road would be all the more hilarious if this simple way of graphical display could be implemented. I mean, we already have this concept implemented for on-site actions, so it would fit the theme nicely, too.

[EuchreJack]

Reminds me of the old games Roadwars and Roadwars Europa.  Which would be awesome, by the way.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I also think it would be a good idea to consider having a Visibility stat for each vehicle, that determines the result of a random "Get pulled over roll." done each time you travel.

Somthing like:
Vehicle stolen: +3 Visibility
Bad driver: + (Somthing relating to the driver's skill) Visibility
Vehicle carries heat: +(Some math related to the amount of heat) Visibility
Good driver: -(Somthing relating to the driver's skill) Visibility
Obvious upgrade (exterior armor plating or such): +5 Visibility
Suspicion of vehicle (As a liberal wearing an elephant suit in the Intelligance HQ is going to be looked upon with suspicion, a HMMWV being driven to the Genetics Lab is going to look really strange): +/- (Value would vary) Visibility

Should you fail this check, the liberals will get flagged down by a cop. You could either try to outrun the cop or pull over. If you pull over, you get a chance to:

A. Surrender
B. Bluff the cop (Depends upon persuasion of driver.)
C. Bribe the cop (You lose some amount of money that can be reduced by Street Skills, with the chance of the bribe being accepted lowering as Police Regulation gets closer to L+.)
D. Attack and drive off. (The driver makes a single attack against the cop. If the cop is incapacitated or killed by this attack, the liberals get away. If the attack misses, the cop gets a single attack against the liberals and begins chasing them immediately. If the attack hits but does not incapacitate or kill the cop, the liberals get a single "free" driving turn.)


I would also suggest the addition of a Chop Shop to the shop areas, where you can sell/upgrade cars. Upgrades would be things like:

Passive armor plating: Minor boost to protection, is not apparent from the outside.
Active armor plating: Major boost to protaction, is apparent from the outside.
Snow plow: Assists in ramming checks, looks a little strange.
Car battering ram: Greatly assists in ramming checks, looks very strange.
Sidecar (Motorcycle Only): Allows up to three (as a second liberal could hold onto the first normally) Liberals on a single motorcycle, reducing speed.
Nitrous Oxide Tank: Boosts speed in car chases. Comes in Inconspicuous Small (1 Turn of boost) and Suspicion-Arousing Large (3 Turns of boost).
High-Horsepower Engine: Permanantly increases speed.
Armored Tires: Permanantly increases duribility.
Bulletproof glass: Permanantly increases protection.
Tinted glass: Permanantly decreases visibility.
Rocket Propelled Grenade: A very expensive, very illegal (Except at C+ Gun Law, of course.) weapon that can only be equiped to your car. Spare rockets can be bought, but only one can be in a car at a time. If activated, all liberals but the second attack normally. The second fires the RPG into your chasers. Mob conservatives (Hicks, Rednecks) are likely to back off even if they don't get hit. Some things just aren't worth it. Police have a lesser chance of doing the same. Mercanaries have a low chance of it, while the Death Squad and CIA do not. And, of course, it wouldn't be very FUN if there wasn't a chance of Conservative Critical Failure in using the RPG, crashing your car instantly.


I also suggest, because it would be awesome, that a Professional Racetrack where high-quality cars can be stolen be added to the city outskirts.

[Jonathan S. Fox]

There's a heat value on cars that is currently unused. The intent was to let you get pulled over. This would work well with some of Toady's notes for the game -- not only do you get pulled over, some of the less regulated police beat the crud out of your people, whether you deserved it or not.

[Innominate]

We could adapt the existing disguise system (with a lot of specific code change of course) to extend to vehicles. I'd like to be able to spray decals on your vehicle to get a small bonus on fleeing if you drive at reasonable speed - assuming that the cars are hidden out of sight somewhere rather than just parked out front - or maybe a certain LCS paint job (liberal slogan on the side of course), which starts the site alarm timer immediately but gives a bonus to site action influence.

Some good ideas by the way. Hopefully somebody likes them enough to want to code them.

[Kay12]

Notice that I added to my original post a detail originally forgotten by me, that after a few rounds in chase, Jeeps and SUVs may go offroad, making things harder for vehicles designed for road use only. Also, each vehicle should have a designed capacity - this may be exceeded so a full squad may travel, but will remove the extra liberals the protection value of the vehicle AND may cause them to fall of when ramming (but think about ramming those hillbilly pickups!).

Also, diversifying chases so multiple different approaches are feasible would be appropriate. Our beloved MetalSlimeHunt (applause) has provided us with an idea of getting pulled over. Roadblocks and spike strips also spring to mind. Bridges getting blown up. Trains speeding across the road. Rioters. Schoolchildren. Tunnels. Cheese. And what about a conservative helicopter joining in chases of particularly nasty liberals?

Which would force another boolean, airborne, to prevent ramming those vehicles and give them the appropriate messages when getting destroyed...

[Sheb]

Ramming conservative schoolchildren? I like it!

[Rakeela]

All this discussion of giving new stats to cars, and I'm curious what the existent stats are.  What do cars do *right now* that is being proposed to change?

I always tend to steal police cars if I have anyone good enough to pull it off.

[Jonathan S. Fox]

I believe right now cars have difficulty to find and speed.

[Greenbane]

According to the XMLs, cars indeed have a difficulty to find, and an apparent bonus to Driving rolls which could be interpreted as speed, handling or whatever.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I figure that it's time to bring this thread back, given Kay's recent comment in the main LCS thread.

[Kay12]

^ Amen.

I guess I'll post the results here, once it's done, that is. I'm a bit busy next week so I'll try to get started today and work on it during the weekend.

[Angel Of Death]

I also think it would be a good idea to consider having a Visibility stat for each vehicle, that determines the result of a random "Get pulled over roll." done each time you travel.

Somthing like:
Vehicle stolen: +3 Visibility
Bad driver: + (Somthing relating to the driver's skill) Visibility
Vehicle carries heat: +(Some math related to the amount of heat) Visibility
Good driver: -(Somthing relating to the driver's skill) Visibility
Obvious upgrade (exterior armor plating or such): +5 Visibility
Suspicion of vehicle (As a liberal wearing an elephant suit in the Intelligance HQ is going to be looked upon with suspicion, a HMMWV being driven to the Genetics Lab is going to look really strange): +/- (Value would vary) Visibility

Should you fail this check, the liberals will get flagged down by a cop. You could either try to outrun the cop or pull over. If you pull over, you get a chance to:

A. Surrender
B. Bluff the cop (Depends upon persuasion of driver.)
C. Bribe the cop (You lose some amount of money that can be reduced by Street Skills, with the chance of the bribe being accepted lowering as Police Regulation gets closer to L+.)
D. Attack and drive off. (The driver makes a single attack against the cop. If the cop is incapacitated or killed by this attack, the liberals get away. If the attack misses, the cop gets a single attack against the liberals and begins chasing them immediately. If the attack hits but does not incapacitate or kill the cop, the liberals get a single "free" driving turn.)


I would also suggest the addition of a Chop Shop to the shop areas, where you can sell/upgrade cars. Upgrades would be things like:

Passive armor plating: Minor boost to protection, is not apparent from the outside.
Active armor plating: Major boost to protaction, is apparent from the outside.
Snow plow: Assists in ramming checks, looks a little strange.
Car battering ram: Greatly assists in ramming checks, looks very strange.
Sidecar (Motorcycle Only): Allows up to three (as a second liberal could hold onto the first normally) Liberals on a single motorcycle, reducing speed.
Nitrous Oxide Tank: Boosts speed in car chases. Comes in Inconspicuous Small (1 Turn of boost) and Suspicion-Arousing Large (3 Turns of boost).
High-Horsepower Engine: Permanantly increases speed.
Armored Tires: Permanantly increases duribility.
Bulletproof glass: Permanantly increases protection.
Tinted glass: Permanantly decreases visibility.
Rocket Propelled Grenade: A very expensive, very illegal (Except at C+ Gun Law, of course.) weapon that can only be equiped to your car. Spare rockets can be bought, but only one can be in a car at a time. If activated, all liberals but the second attack normally. The second fires the RPG into your chasers. Mob conservatives (Hicks, Rednecks) are likely to back off even if they don't get hit. Some things just aren't worth it. Police have a lesser chance of doing the same. Mercanaries have a low chance of it, while the Death Squad and CIA do not. And, of course, it wouldn't be very FUN if there wasn't a chance of Conservative Critical Failure in using the RPG, crashing your car instantly.


I also suggest, because it would be awesome, that a Professional Racetrack where high-quality cars can be stolen be added to the city outskirts.

This would be AWESOME!