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[DJ]

Do you really think that lifting weights all day long would be fun gameplay? "Raising stats" IRL is stupendously boring, so I really don't see why would anyone want realism here.

[Dariush]

So you mean spending a shitload of time looking for random grass, stones and fish isn't

stupendously boring

. Right.

[DJ]

Infinitely more fun than lifting weights. Or making three billion buckets, or whatever it is that you want.

[fenrif]

So illogical nonsense boring is better than realistic boring?

[DJ]

Except it's nowhere near as boring.

And really, do you guys also think that Star Wars is an abomination because space fighters fly like planes?

[Dariush]

And really, do you guys also think that Star Wars is an abomination because space fighters fly like planes?

...Yes?

Fanboys gotta fanboy.

[DJ]

Really? You think Star Wars (the originals, not the crappy prequels) were horrible movies because they weren't realistic? My God, you just may be the worst person ever to watch movies with. I bet loud comments got you banned in all cinemas in your county.

[Dariush]

Really? You think Star Wars (the originals, not the crappy prequels) were horrible movies because they weren't realistic? My God, you just may be the worst person ever to watch movies with. I bet loud comments got you banned in all cinemas in your county.

Er, I didn't actually say they were horrible. But yes, they were horrible and not only because of being horrifically unrealistic. Now can we please return to the topic of your pink-glassed fanboyism Salem?

[DJ]

Well, there isn't much to discuss on the latest topic because you think imagination is a crime.

[fenrif]

Except it's nowhere near as boring.

And really, do you guys also think that Star Wars is an abomination because space fighters fly like planes?

It's not about realism. It's about suspension of disbelief and internal consistency, which is a tricky thing. Space fighters flying like planes works because the two things have a lot in common conceptually. They both fly, they both have wings, they both shoot guns, etc. Looking at a rock turning you into a better soldier just shatters that suspension because it's so bizzare and counter-intuitive that you can't help but pick at it.

H&H and Salem are both presented as fairly realistic worlds, like the one we live in. It creates, and we expect, a certain level of consistency within that framework. Much like how you can forgive a sci-fi movie for having space magic, because it fits in with everything else in the narrative, you can forgive a game for having wildly unrealistic systems if it fits in with the rest of what's presented. However if you take the force and put it in Blade Runner (for example) it suddenly becomes absurd and your disbelief comes crashing back in, because it's inconsistent with the rest of what you're seeing.

[Tasticka]

Oh, where he actually said or considered imagination to be a crime? Thing I can dig out of it is that use of imagination for entertaining has its boundaries.

[Dariush]

Well, there isn't much to discuss on the latest topic because you think imagination is a crime.

Go imagine yourself a perfect game. And a perfect world, while you're at it.

[DJ]

Really, curios/inspirationals don't make sense? So you would say you haven't learned anything from building lego houses as a child? Playing is *the* method of learning IRL, so I really don't see how it's so hard to swallow learning from toys in a game.

And Salem is everything but realistic. It's eventually going to have broom-flying witches and it already has braziers which magically knock you out when you walk on claims. But the biggest break from reality is definitely the scope of character advancement, because IRL you will *never* increase your strength 100-fold, no matter how much you practice. And what do you know, virtually every RPG ever breaks realism on this one.

Using items rather than actions for character advancement fits Salem's tagline - The Crafting MMO - perfectly. The game is supposed to be about building and improving your infrastructure, and you have to make character development depend on it to do so. If it's just actions, why would you ever bother with improving quality of your stuff when the optimal strategy is to just grind away on whatever gives the most experience? Which reminds me of a major flaw in Salem's design - it actually encourages using just one type of inspirational to fill a bar rather than a balanced "diet", but that's bound to change.

And yes, it is quite bad that your only options for getting started are chestnuts and smooth stones. Why do you think I repeated so many times before the beta started that the game is currently content-poor and will make most people disappointed?

[Dariush]

Really, curios/inspirationals don't make sense? So you would say you haven't learned anything from building lego houses as a child? Playing is *the* method of learning IRL, so I really don't see how it's so hard to swallow learning from toys in a game.

I'd sure as fuck like to see some baby learn architecture by building a lego house.

And yes, it is quite bad that your only options for getting started are chestnuts and smooth stones. Why do you think I repeated so many times before the beta started that the game is currently content-poor and will make most people disappointed?

Content-poor != intentionally badly designed.

[DJ]

And I'd sure as fuck love to see a person who hasn't grasped the basic concepts of spatial relations learn architecture.

And really, what would you have? Building thousands of baskets and chopping thousands of trees for experience alone because it's somehow more realistic? Even if it is, it is still inferior gameplay because it's mind-numbingly grindy and doesn't involve any actual decision making. And if you're not making decisions you're not playing a game, you're watching it. Even if it actually requires you to turn the crank on the projector.