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[Neyvn]

He didn't have to even create an alt in that case. All he had to do was use the massive skillgains he got off high level smithing to level farming / cooking.

Haven and Hearth has a Belief system, to be an effective Miner you need to have your Belief all the way towards Industry (which gives a better chance of the Ore not becoming Slag (stone)). While he can do this, his Farming ability becomes useless as he will always recover one 'seed' from a harvest action. In response, if you have your belief all the way towards Nature (the opposite of Industry) you will recover 3 'seeds' from a harvest action, but the chances of getting Ore into normal metal is slim to none. Having it in the middle will give a <50% chance of Ore to Metal, and always give only 2 'seeds' per harvest...

I suppose. It's still pretty easy to do it without having belief sliders set any way, though. The only thing that could have any trouble with that was the silk moths.

It is quite hard, the difference of having 80% of your Ore going to metal to 45% at mid range is bigger then you think... Go onto the HnH forums and ask that question, $1000000000000000000 USD says that 99.9999% of the responses would be, "Just make a Farming alt..."

Too many people fall into that system of, Oh I can't do this by myself with this character, lets start up another, on a new account, and do it that way. Who cares if fellow villager 1,2,3,4,5 can do it better then me, THIS IS MY ORE!!! THEY AIN'T GETTING ANY OF IT!!! THEY WANT METAL, THEY SHOULD GO MAKE A MINING ALT AND FIND THEIR OWN MINE!!!!...

Yes this has happened to me in HnH, thrice...
Azk is doing it right now to a point, he just hasn't gotten around to making the Farming Alt yet. But in time...

[Keita]

A game based on H.P.Lovecraft's world?

I'm so pumped for this game =D

[Farseer]

It is quite hard, the difference of having 80% of your Ore going to metal to 45% at mid range is bigger then you think... Go onto the HnH forums and ask that question, $1000000000000000000 USD says that 99.9999% of the responses would be, "Just make a Farming alt..."

Too many people fall into that system of, Oh I can't do this by myself with this character, lets start up another, on a new account, and do it that way. Who cares if fellow villager 1,2,3,4,5 can do it better then me, THIS IS MY ORE!!! THEY AIN'T GETTING ANY OF IT!!! THEY WANT METAL, THEY SHOULD GO MAKE A MINING ALT AND FIND THEIR OWN MINE!!!!...

Yes this has happened to me in HnH, thrice...
Azk is doing it right now to a point, he just hasn't gotten around to making the Farming Alt yet. But in time...

The trouble is that, due to the free to play model, there's no way to stop this from happening. =/

[Vel]

Personally, I think the person mentioned giving benefits for having things happening in 'past lives' might be on to something vaguely interesting. But I still think it would ultimately boil down to a handful of people who take the game seriously versus a vast army of 12 year olds with nigh unlimited griefing accounts. Permadeath attracts the small community of hardcore, thrillseeking players who crave excitement that can only come from real risk. It also attracts the /enormous/ community of mouthbreathing idiots who's only pleasure in their miserable, inconsequential lives is seeing how much they can annoy other people.

[Rift]

You think slaughtering mass droves of bitching 12 year olds that are annoying you is unfun?

I think your underestimating how a 12 year old would react to dieing.. i bet more then 1/2 would throw temper tamtrums and never play the game again.

[Vel]

Pretty generally they have no investment in their character and thus do not care in the slightest if they die.

[Rilder]

I kinda hope its not that easy for us to get killed, I tend to get way to attached to shit in games even though I shouldn't >.>

[Farseer]

Personally, I think the person mentioned giving benefits for having things happening in 'past lives' might be on to something vaguely interesting. But I still think it would ultimately boil down to a handful of people who take the game seriously versus a vast army of 12 year olds with nigh unlimited griefing accounts. Permadeath attracts the small community of hardcore, thrillseeking players who crave excitement that can only come from real risk. It also attracts the /enormous/ community of mouthbreathing idiots who's only pleasure in their miserable, inconsequential lives is seeing how much they can annoy other people.

This happened in H&H and the worst part is that Jorb and Loftar LISTENED to the idiots.

[Rift]

Pretty generally they have no investment in their character and thus do not care in the slightest if they die.

The way they balanced it before, and how it worked, was by making it require investment to be annoying, and the more annoying things required more investment. Thus in order to truely annoy someone, you had to invest time and effort into your character.
And while i have no idea if its working that well at the moment in haven and hearth...
I certainly saw it work first hand on a small scale in haven and hearth in previous worlds.

Now while i'm not argueing that small scale is the same as large scale, however i meerly want to say that theirs no reasons to assume that its going to fail, provided its engineered well. And given Jorb & Loftar pretty much approached H&H as one big social experiment to find things like this out, i would suspect they have a better shot at achieving this then anyone before them.

I might guess that it will still have lots of problems and griefing if it gets popular, however i must strongly state that there is still a freaken chance it will work out, and that some ideas are worth a bit of risk.


//I may be a bit fustrated at some of the negativism in this thread, while no doubt a lot of it is based on fustration at mmo's going horrible wrong, we gotta keep a little hope alive folks and admit that theres a chance things might work out, and sometimes thats enough reason to support something.

[DJ]

FYI, permadeath and player-enforced law and order work nearly perfectly in H&H. What you guys seem to have trouble with is the fact that stronger people can bully you if you refuse to find friends to back you up. Frankly, I don't see a problem with discouraging people to play a MMO as if it was a single player game.

[Dakk]

Aye, that aspect of H&H actualy worked, but the game was a bit too barebones when it came to player interaction. Eventualy players started warring eachother just because they were bored of everything, not because there was some sort of reward in doing it. When you settle in a village in H&H, all the awesome survival experience gets replaced by a series of boring tasks, and you end up picking yourself one of the two rules in the industry vs nature bar, either become a farmer and toil on the fields forever or become a miner and toil in the mines forever.

[DJ]

Yeah, can't argue with that. What H&H really needs is concrete incentive for conflict (taking over resource spots or something), so people can go and fight without feeling like dicks. Also, I agree with the guy that said it needs caps.

[mithra]

FYI, permadeath and player-enforced law and order work nearly perfectly in H&H.

I love that you start your opinion with "FYI".  A large number of people disagree with you.

[DJ]

Well those people must suck at the game, because I've only been killed once in nearly two years of constant playing. And even that death was mostly my own stupidity (took armour off and went AFK). Basically, these people are building a surface fort without any walls, traps or soldiers, and then complaining that goblin sieges are OP.

[mithra]

Well those people must suck at the game, because I've only been killed once in nearly two years of constant playing. And even that death was mostly my own stupidity (took armour off and went AFK). Basically, these people are building a surface fort without any walls, traps or soldiers, and then complaining that goblin sieges are OP.

Why, yes, those people who don't agree with you must be bad at the game.  You have such a way with argument.  It's astonishing, really.