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[PenguinOverlord]

So, the guys who develop Haven and Hearth is working on a more professional MMO called Salem. It looks promising, at any rate.
edit: Found some actual info about it here.

Anyway, I don't like what they intend to do with the scent system. I do not want to be killed while I'm offline.

[ductape]

If we get to perma-kill christians, I'm in.

"There is only two types of people I can't stand. Those intolerant of other cultures and the Dutch."

What makes you think it is okay to say or think stuff like this?

Of course Soulwynd was joking, but I will give you a good reason why that is OK to say in this thread. Mainly because Salem and the witch hunts that happened there were about puritanical Christians persecuting (read: slaughtering) pagans for their beliefs. I imagine the entire game will have a predominant theme of Christians versus pagans/witches with some Cthulhu mythos thrown in for good measure. THAT is why it is OK to say that in this thread.

[Rilder]

Predominant theme of christians Vs Pagans? *Loads Musket* Lets hunt some christians!

[mithra]

Here's my take:  it will fail, and hard.

Now that isn't really going out on a limb considering that most MMOs fail, but I can't see a thing in this one that is going to generate enough of a fan base to sustain it.  The "Free to Play" model means no monthly subscription, and probably no cost to acquire the game, but there will have to be some sort of revenue generation.  To me, that means a cash shop.  That could be okay if it doesn't include actual in-game benefits to PvP, which is at the heart of this MMO.  But I think it will have to include such benefits.  I just don't see the type of player attracted to a PvP permadeath MMO being that interested in a pretty hat, or some other cosmetic purchase.  Not enough revenue means shut down for a commercial game.

Edited to add: To finish the other part of my point, if the cash shop does include PvP enhancements, then those with the most cash will dominate, and it won't be worth playing.

In the meantime, H&H will continue along its own flawed path, but now with less dev time applied to it.  Oh, well.

[Farseer]

I think H&H is failing due to them listening to the utter morons on the forums.

"You guys know what'd be a bad idea? A skill cap, because then I couldn't macro / bug my way to full skills or have any meaningful interaction with others in my clan. LOLOLOL."

H&H was in trouble when they made the game far too dependent on high skills. If they'd reduced that to a certain degree, it might have worked out well.

I'm still probably going to end up playing this, though.

[mithra]

So, the guys who develop Haven and Hearth is working on a more professional MMO called Salem. It looks promising, at any rate.
edit: Found some actual info about it here.

Anyway, I don't like what they intend to do with the scent system. I do not want to be killed while I'm offline.

This is the same system used in H&H.  Actually, except for the graphics, Salem is H&H.

[Farseer]

Found some actual info about it here.

Holy crap, is that what they look like? Hahahah.

Reading now.

[Rilder]

On a side note is it just me or is Paradox really starting to get successful as of late? They seem to be putting a lot more out and getting involved in a lot more stuff then they used to.

[Soulwynd]

If we get to perma-kill christians, I'm in.

What makes you think it is okay to say or think stuff like this?

What makes you think it is okay for you to question what I say or think?

Like others pointed out, it's a game in Salem. I take the witch/pagan side.

Holy crap, is that what they look like? Hahahah.

The fuck?



It's like... Pokemon for the DS graphics.

[Farseer]

Holy crap, is that what they look like? Hahahah.

The fuck?

I don't mean that, I mean that picture of them. I never saw them before, but that is CERTAINLY not what I imagined them to look like. I was thinking more beards or something, not a pair of people who look like serious drug addicts / Sith.

Also, made a post on the Paradox forums about the issues I saw with H&H: Click here. Try and remember I played about a year back, so it might be completely changed, now.

[Astral]

Looks too cutesy for a game that's about pagan worship and murdering people.

Pass.

[Tilla]

The terrain is by far the worst part. It looks like for all intents and purposes they took the 2D flat-ish terrain of H&H and just slapped 3D trees and characters on top. Eww.

[kulik]

Oh boy, i always wanted a dark themed MMO with permadeath. What would be the point of burning a pagan if he would just respawn. 
As i see it its perfectly possible to have permadeath MMO if:
1.Difference between low and highlevel characters isn't too dramatic. Imagine dwarf fortress where max skill is competent or accomplished. You obviously have the upper hand over dabbing character but if he has better equipped, has friends or more luck... The dabbing character won't be seen as somebody you just walk over when you decide, he has to be able to influence things around him from the start.   
It has to bee balanced to a point you don't want to loose your character (to benefit from the permadeath mechanic influencing your actions) but if you do, you won 't quit cause of it.
2. It can't be grind based. If players see leveling as work, they don't want to see someone to destroying their work, they may get upset and quit.
I would do it like this: When you're online, you go on quest (preferably not scripted), socializing, explore... AND you make a list of task you character has to make when you go offline like train with weapon, craft this, build that, cut that tree... (or you would do it online by couple of clicks without any waiting and then you would go offline for timeperiod needed for your character to do this things)
While offline your character would be still in game, could be attacked but not killed, only knocked out. He would remain off all his possessions in his inventory but his properties like house could be destroyed and robbed, the character would of course deffend theirs property's. This would force the players to make villages together so the characters even if the players are offline would be a solid deffence to unorganized griefers which of course could be permanently killed, thus thinking twice to go against bunch of AI controlled character which have nothing to loose.

edit. I can imagine having dark themed mmo with childish grapics, it may get a strange disturbing feel to it like one in American Mcgee's alice. As i remember Notch (he worked some time on wurm if you didn't know) once said something like: "If you go for photorealistic graphics you need to devote lots of resources to it which can be spend elsewhere" ...i approve.

[Farseer]

Oh boy, i always wanted a dark themed MMO with permadeath. What would be the point of burning a pagan if he would just respawn. 
As i see it its perfectly possible to have permadeath MMO if:
1.Difference between low and highlevel characters isn't too dramatic. Imagine dwarf fortress where max skill is competent or accomplished. You obviously have the upper hand over dabbing character but if he has better equipped, has friends or more luck... The dabbing character won't be seen as somebody you just walk over when you decide, he has to be able to influence things around him from the start.   
It has to bee balanced to a point you don't want to loose your character (to benefit from the permadeath mechanic influencing your actions) but if you do, you won 't quit cause of it.
2. It can't be grind based. If players see leveling as work, they don't want to see someone to destroying their work, they may get upset and quit.
I would do it like this: When you online, you go on quest (preferably not scripted), socializing, explore... AND you make a list of task you character has to make when you go offline like train with weapon, craft this, build that, cut that tree... (or you would do it online by couple of clicks without any waiting and then you would go offline for timeperiod needed for your character to do this things)
While offline you character would be still in game, could be attacked but not killed, only knocked out. He would remain all his possessions in his inventory but his properties like house could be destroyed and robbed, the character would of course deffend theirs property's. This would force the players to make villages together so the characters even if the players are offline would be a solid deffence to unorganized griefers which of course could be permanently killed, thus thinking twice to go against bunch of AI controlled character which have nothing to loose.

I'll just quote my "Issues with H&H" thread:-

1. Massive grind. The primary trouble with H&H was that it was a massive grindfest with permadeath and open PvP enabled. This was due to the lack of skill or ability caps, which meant progression was infinite. This caused a bunch of other problems that I may talk about later.

The massive grind WAS useful for discouraging players from fighting from one another (what's the point when the risks are so massive?), but it also meant that both griefing and using alt accounts to attack your enemy were far too good as tactics. Just create a few noob characters, grind upto the murdering skills and go and slaughter enemies with your disposable characters.

2. No skill caps. This discouraged both grouping with other players and specialisation. What's the point in being specialised when you can get to a level in one skill and use your ability points in that skill in all others?

3. No diminishing returns from abilities / skills. This meant a massive divide between new players and oldbies, which is never a good thing in open PvP scenarios. Was resolved slightly with resets over maps, but that didn't really sort the problem out.

[Rakonas]

This could work with one simple switch from HnH. Make it so leveling to grief is very difficult, while leveling to be legitimate is rather easy.
Also, pretty sure the graphics explain why it's free to play.