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[DJ]

I'm gonna defend these design choices as soon as I'm sober!

[Dariush]

I'm gonna defend these design choices as soon as I'm sober!

Why do you think you'll want to when you are sober?

[KoE]

I didn't and still don't mind the curio paradigm, but holy christ, I spent half an hour beelining away from Boston and didn't encounter anything interactable (besides a boulder I could lift). Figuring I'd missed something, I laboriously watched the 'LP tutorial' (the first two of which were interminable and profoundly useless  ) before realizing I was supposed to find a rock or whatever. In another half hour of searching I've found a piece of grass on a cliff that seemed to be unpickable due to its location.

I'm assuming this is just a blunder of the beta launch not accounting for how many folks are running around and not actual intended gameplay but that makes it no less aggravating.

I'll also agree the 3D just makes navigating a chore. Really need some camera options.

At this point my impression is somewhere between 'lol, obvious beta' and 'I really wish they'd stuck with Haven & Hearth'.

[ductape]

got my beta email, i COULD dl and play. BUT I WILL NOT! this looks pathetic.

[Impending Doom]

Am I the only one who isn't quite ready to dismiss this game yet? I agree that foraging rates are far too low, but isn't discovering issues like this what a beta is for? If the devs will just make foraging a tad easier and make maple leaves respawn properly, I will be happy.

[hemmingjay]

I'm not abandoning it, but I am a bit aggravated that I spent 2 hours finding 2 smooth stone, which was necessary so I could make even the most modest progress in the game. It's obnoxious and I fully understand why anyone would abandon it at this point.

[ductape]

these guys should know exactly how to pull this off, after all it is just H&H 2.0

and yet...

[Dariush]

these guys should know exactly how to pull this off, after all it is just H&H 2.0

After fucking up H&H in W5 onwards due to a bullshit excuse about 'protection against bots'? The only thing those idiots know is how to take a decent thing and make it horribly suck.

[Girlinhat]

Their "protection against bots" works as well as you can expect, considering it's protecting a flawed method to begin with.  LP doesn't make sense, in realworld terms or in gameworld mechanics.  In realworld it's just insane.  Stare at a rock, become a soldier.  In gameworld it doesn't even work.  However you're gaining LP is an arbitrary method and there is no good way to balance it, period.

This is not just an issue "curios are bad" but it's a much more basic issue, "LP is bad."  It's broken at the very basic level.

[DJ]

Indeed. And that is the beauty of Salem - skill values have been made fairly unimportant, it's all about stats now. FEPs were always a good system IMO, and Salem makes it even better.

I don't see how studying stuff doesn't make sense lore wise, never heard of educational toys? Anyway, I think it works OK here. The main point of curios was never stopping botting, it was rewarding player skill. With the crappy old LP system all you had to do was find the most LP rewarding activity and grind it like a madman, and anyone who did anything that gives less LP (ie work that you actually need done) or even stuff that didn't give LP at all (tidying up the cupboards, hauling logs or just chatting) wound up useless for combat.

Anyway, the main issue with Salem right now is centralized spawn. There is literally *nothing* for several hours around Boston, I know because I looked with a character that has most of the foraging skills. It just mirrors the RoB of H&H world 2, where there weren't any trees within an hour of the spawn point. Centralized spawn is a bad design choice, and the devs will have to change it now that it's so obvious it doesn't work.

[Errol]

Indeed. And that is the beauty of Salem - skill values have been made fairly unimportant, it's all about stats now. FEPs were always a good system IMO, and Salem makes it even better.

I don't see how studying stuff doesn't make sense lore wise, never heard of educational toys? Anyway, I think it works OK here. The main point of curios was never stopping botting, it was rewarding player skill. With the crappy old LP system all you had to do was find the most LP rewarding activity and grind it like a madman, and anyone who did anything that gives less LP (ie work that you actually need done) or even stuff that didn't give LP at all (tidying up the cupboards, hauling logs or just chatting) wound up useless for combat.

Anyway, the main issue with Salem right now is centralized spawn. There is literally *nothing* for several hours around Boston, I know because I looked with a character that has most of the foraging skills. It just mirrors the RoB of H&H world 2, where there weren't any trees within an hour of the spawn point. Centralized spawn is a bad design choice, and the devs will have to change it now that it's so obvious it doesn't work.

For the matter, the one of World 1 too. (Good times, nevertheless.) They should perhaps have remembered that lesson.

[Dariush]

FEPs were always a good system IMO

Please tell me you are kidding. Please.

How the hell does 'eat bear meat to improve strength' constitue a good system? Or have you forgotten how the most dire problem most new settlements faced was the absence of a very specific kind of fish that improved perception?

LP system makes just a bit of sense in that someone who's already put a lot of LP into, for example, carpentry would probably gain more LP from making stuff from wood. FEPs make no sense whatso-fucking-ever.

[DJ]

How does magic in RPGs make any sense? It's a damn game, so suspend your fucking disbelief.

[Girlinhat]

How does magic in RPGs make any sense? It's a damn game, so suspend your fucking disbelief.

Ah, the good old "it's a game, if you want anything to make sense then you're an idiot" argument.  Contrary to unpopular belief, it's possible for games to make sense and be realistic.

[Dariush]

How does magic in RPGs make any sense? It's a damn game, so suspend your fucking disbelief.

If there was magic in real world and some game was fucking up it's representation, I would get pissed. However, there isn't. But there are such things as strength and dexterity in real world. AND THEY ARE NOT IMPROVED BY EATING FUCKING BEAR MEAT.