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[rephikul]

Literally breaking the game? Easy, 60 pages of undeads in a black pancakes. The miasma basically makes it unplayable and might outright crash older comps.

[fervor]

In order to be game breaking in the first place, you have to be able to define how the game can be broken.  This is the problem with an open-ended game like DF - with no real goal, you can't say that anything really makes it too easy to reach that goal.  There IS no goal to reach, aside from the ones you set for yourself.  If all the more you want from the game is a mostly non-violent, fantasy version of The Sims, you're going to play the game entirely different from someone who plays with Dig Deeper and refuses to use bridges, quantum stockpiles, or traps.

Give us your definition of what means something has broken the game.

Well, in most builder games, survival, growth and economic success are usually positive indicators of your progress.

Some of the 'tricks' or tools listed in this thread can make achieving success rather trivial...which makes it boring...and less Fun.

For some people, it's hard to stop themselves from using all the tools given to them by the game.

For example, it's perfectly natural to want to put a drawbridge, walls, moats and traps at your fortress entrance.  Once you put those in place properly, your fortress is basically impenetrable.  It doesn't take that much effort.

I remember the first time I played this game (not long ago).  I was really excited when a metal Colossus had appeared and started tromping towards my fortress.  I had prepared my military for a couple years, but I wasn't sure how they'd do.  Then I was severely disappointed when the Colossus got captured easily by a cage trap.  WTF!  Every goblin siege was easily defeated as well by my defenses.  I didn't even need my military at all.  When I did finally open my defenses to let my military try out their skills, they rampaged through everything because I had prepared too much.

I don't want to have to intentionally screw myself over to create some challenge.  That is kinda weird to me, although, it is a game mechanic you find in other games.

By the way, trade success is ridiculously easy too.  It doesn't take long before you can build your craft industry to the point where you can easily buy out every single trade caravan completely.  You're basically overflowing with 'cash' and nothing to spend it on.  After a few years, your fortress is bursting with crafts, food, drink, top tier weapons and armor, etc...everything you could possibly need.

[Draignean]

In order to be game breaking in the first place, you have to be able to define how the game can be broken.  This is the problem with an open-ended game like DF - with no real goal, you can't say that anything really makes it too easy to reach that goal.  There IS no goal to reach, aside from the ones you set for yourself.  If all the more you want from the game is a mostly non-violent, fantasy version of The Sims, you're going to play the game entirely different from someone who plays with Dig Deeper and refuses to use bridges, quantum stockpiles, or traps.

Give us your definition of what means something has broken the game.

Well, in most builder games, survival, growth and economic success are usually positive indicators of your progress.

In most builder games you don't get to set kittens on fire and shoot them down into a 70 Z-level drop. In most builder games your people don't go insane and destroy the machine that happens to be keeping them alive. In most games Flying Slugs made of Vomit don't come up from below only to be killed by a skeletal moose.    This isn't most builder games...

This is Dwarf Fortress.


For me the two things that have struck me as totally broken are Quantum dumps, and cage traps. (I will never use cage traps in my forts until that problem is fixed.) Quantum Dumps are a HUGE temptation to me since they let me get all of that DAMN PATTERN BREAKING stone out my halls.

That's just me though.

[BigD145]

(I will never use cage traps in my forts until that problem is fixed.)

Add [trapavoid] to more things.

[Itnetlolor]

63 posts and no mentions of FLUFFY WAMBLERS?! Those things can kill bronze colossi.

[Blind Wolf]

I don't think I could live without magma. I've never had a map with enough wood to have a metal industry, AND to build enough beds and tables. Except when they're in the middle of a forest. And dwarves are SUPPOSED to have better metal than everyone else. They're dwarves. That's like complaining that Elves have magical wood or something. Or at least it will be when they actually get magical wood...

As far as overpowered things go, I'd have to say cage traps, moats and walls.  But I'm fairlys ure Toady is planning on fixing all of those. Never expect balance in an incomplete game. Total balance is boring, anyway.

[mwanafalsafa]

Don't goblins come with building destroyer creatures that can break down built walls?

[Asra]

Building destroyer does not affect built walls, only doors and drawbridges, if I recall.


Also I think the most overpowered thins is cage traps by a long-shot. Everything else can easily be mitigated based on embarking somewhere new and interesting.

[Shambling Zombie]

I personally limit myself to just a few cage traps (four, I think is the total), since I like having creatures to feed the Grand Arena in my fortress. Most epic moment I've had so far is when I pitted a small squad of captured, fully-armed gobbos against a captured Hydra in the Grand Arena.

[fervor]

In most builder games you don't get to set kittens on fire and shoot them down into a 70 Z-level drop. In most builder games your people don't go insane and destroy the machine that happens to be keeping them alive. In most games Flying Slugs made of Vomit don't come up from below only to be killed by a skeletal moose.    This isn't most builder games...

This is Dwarf Fortress.

If you're judging DF as an open simulator like The Sims, then nothing matters at all.  It's just all toys for us to use for our enjoyment in any way we desire.  Setting kittens on fire or people going insane is good fun, but talking about things being overpowered doesn't make any sense.

It's in the context of DF being a builder game that we can talk about things being overpowered.

The core of DF is a builder game, but as this thread indicates, some things are really overpowered.

The Sims could be a reasonable analogy.  For many people, the core of the game (life simulator) is just a setting and the extras like creating a fictional world where drama and life stories happen are where they find enjoyment.  For other people, the life simulator is the fun part and the extras are dressing.  Unfortunately, the life simulator aspect of The Sims is really easy, especially for an experienced gamer, so they get bored quickly and stop playing.

Playing DF with all the tricks can lead to the same problem.  Without any challenge, the fun disappears too.

Anyways...  The solution for now is to avoid or limit yourself from taking advantage of overpowered parts of the game.

[Maynot]

36)  Forgotten beast death dust

One forgotten beast with death dust can effectively kill off your entire fort even if you use a dwarf wash and the cleaning cheat program.

[Urist Imiknorris]

Or it can be weaponized to prevent you from ever needing an army again!

Until one of its buddies show up...

[Alastar]

The worst thing isn't an object but a concept - predictable pathfinding. Forks/merry-go-rounds with repeater-driven hatches allow one to contain anything, flying and building destroyer are not issues. Once you can contain something, you can deal with it at your leisure.

[Slade Beds]

- Weapon traps contribute to room value: install a weapon trap in somebody's bedroom. It takes up one space and is more valuable than most furniture your metalsmiths can make. An +iron disc+ and a mechanism is just as impressive as several pieces of solid gold furniture.

[NSQuote]

- Weapon traps contribute to room value: install a weapon trap in somebody's bedroom. It takes up one space and is more valuable than most furniture your metalsmiths can make. An +iron disc+ and a mechanism is just as impressive as several pieces of solid gold furniture.

Plus, you can't kill a noble with a gold cabinet.