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Author Topic: Beginner questions  (Read 1092 times)

IceMage88

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Beginner questions
« on: January 19, 2011, 10:13:46 pm »

Hello, I hope I am putting this in the right section.

I haven't even started dwarf fortress yet, it seems very complex, and daunting. First of all, should I?

Secondly, if I should, could somebody please point me to a tileset and tell me how to put it in game, im big on gameplay over graphics in most cases, however, I honestly can't easily tell what is going on in a lot of videos i've watched.

Third, can somebody point me to recent tutorials? I've just been watching these, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koZUS2h-Yzc, and apparently, they are from 2008, and alot of the info here does not apply anymore.

Last, just a small question, but the person in those videos made all of there military marksdwarves, is there a reason for this? Are they the best? I was thinking of having about 2/3 spears and 1/3 crossbow, is this a better idea?

Sorry if these questions are obvious, but im new, and haven't even attempted playing yet. I actually did not lurk here, so I do not know how friendly the community is, I hope you can all answer my questions kindly. Thank you  :)
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NecroRebel

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Re: Beginner questions
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2011, 10:28:07 pm »

Hello, I hope I am putting this in the right section.
This and the Dwarf Mode Discussion sections largely run into one another. Here is probably more appropriate for your questions, though.

Quote
I haven't even started dwarf fortress yet, it seems very complex, and daunting. First of all, should I?
It depends what you're looking for. It is, as you say, a very complex game, and learning it is a daunting task. Those people who stick with it, however, typically find it to be entertaining.

Quote
Secondly, if I should, could somebody please point me to a tileset and tell me how to put it in game, im big on gameplay over graphics in most cases, however, I honestly can't easily tell what is going on in a lot of videos i've watched.
I can say that graphics might not help you figure out what's going on. I know that for my part I have difficulty knowing what's going on in videos that have a graphics set active, but I can read the vanilla ASCII easily. That said, I've heard many good things about the Lazy Newb Pack; it comes with much that you'll likely find helpful for starting out, and is easily installed, too.

Quote
Third, can somebody point me to recent tutorials? I've just been watching these, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koZUS2h-Yzc, and apparently, they are from 2008, and alot of the info here does not apply anymore.
I don't know of any good ones for the latest (31.x) versions, but Tinypirate's tutorial comes highly-recommended.

Quote
Last, just a small question, but the person in those videos made all of there military marksdwarves, is there a reason for this? Are they the best? I was thinking of having about 2/3 spears and 1/3 crossbow, is this a better idea?
Marksdwarves have the advantage of a ranged attack, and, at least in the version capnduck was playing, worked more like machineguns than crossbows. A marksdwarf in a good position could take out whole sieges singlehandedly, unless there were enemy elite marksmen. Anymore, however, crossbows got nerfed a fair amount with the new materials and body systems (so a single bolt can't take out all of an enemy's internal organs in one hit), so melee troops are now more desirable than they used to be.

The problem with having just spears and crossbows is that they both deal piercing damage, so if you go against something that is resistant to piercing damage, you're in trouble. It's probably better to do more like 1/3 axes, 1/3 spears, 1/3 crossbows if you're going for a mix like that, or just mix your weapons at random.

Quote
Sorry if these questions are obvious, but im new, and haven't even attempted playing yet. I actually did not lurk here, so I do not know how friendly the community is, I hope you can all answer my questions kindly. Thank you  :)
The people who learn this game are, frankly, outrageously patient. The people who frequent the forums have mostly learned the game. It's a friendly community, in general.
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ext0l

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Re: Beginner questions
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2011, 10:29:15 pm »

1. Yes.
2. You can try the lazy noob pack. There are 3 different tilesets that you can choose between, though I prefer ASCII
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=59026.0
3. Even though the videos are from 2008, a lot of the instructions still apply. As far as I know, the biggest change is the military screen. http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:Military_interface
4. This is mostly a matter of choice. I personally like 2 squads of axedwarfs for general combat, 1 squad of marksdwarf to back them up, and 1 mixed hammer/spear/sword squad for miscellaneous fighting.
Don't be afraid to ask questions!  :)
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IceMage88

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Re: Beginner questions
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2011, 10:41:58 pm »

Thanks for your help so far, this community does seem quite friendly  :)

I do think my second question was a bit understood. I have trouble with slopes and trees and stuff. 

Warning: large images

See this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
This picture confuses me. I can't properly tell where trees and grass are. I also can't really make out how slopes affect the landscape.

However, the graphics in this picture:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Look clearer and easier to understood.

How that makes it kinda of more clear-ish
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Sutremaine

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Re: Beginner questions
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2011, 10:49:59 pm »

Hello, I hope I am putting this in the right section.
DF Gameplay: things you're doing right now
DF Dwarf Mode: things you have done or might do in the future
DF General Discussion: things about the game itself, or things related to DF

There is a lot of overlap though, and information you want might not be in the forum you expect (game workings get discussed a lot in the modding section, but in a way that assumes some familiarity with the game and its quirks). This makes the search function particularly useful, but you need to stick around for a while to know what exact terms are likely to lead you to what you want.

On preview: the outdoors is a lot messier-looking than the indoors regardless of tileset, that's normal (I do find that tileset particularly hard to read at first glance though). Slopes are marked on two z-levels but only really exist on one. The upslope (visible on the first screenshot) is the part that dwarves stand on, the downslope on the level above is just there for visual convenience.

This leads to the odd situation of being able to seal a slope shut with a drawbridge while dwarves are still walking on the slope, because they never appear on the downslope and therefore cannot be struck by a lowering bridge. Don't think about it too hard, the game is full of stuff like that.
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Honestly at the time, I didn't see what could go wrong with crowding 80 military Dwarves into a small room with a necromancer for the purpose of making bacon.

IceMage88

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Re: Beginner questions
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2011, 10:53:51 pm »

Quote
Slopes are marked on two z-levels but only really exist on one. The upslope (visible on the first screenshot) is the part that dwarves stand on, the downslope on the level above is just there for visual convenience.

This leads to the odd situation of being able to seal a slope shut with a drawbridge while dwarves are still walking on the slope, because they never appear on the downslope and therefore cannot be struck by a lowering bridge. Don't think about it too hard, the game is full of stuff like that.

Just stuff like this makes my brain hurt lol, I wonder if I do pick up this game, if ill be able to understand it better.
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NecroRebel

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Re: Beginner questions
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2011, 11:00:25 pm »

Thanks for your help so far, this community does seem quite friendly  :)

I do think my second question was a bit understood. I have trouble with slopes and trees and stuff. 

-snip-
This picture confuses me. I can't properly tell where trees and grass are. I also can't really make out how slopes affect the landscape.

However, the graphics in this picture: -snip-
Look clearer and easier to understood.

How that makes it kinda of more clear-ish
I think those are actually the same tileset  :-\ Yeah, the plump helmets (the purple things in the bottom picture) are the same tile as some of the trees in the top picture, just recolored. Meaning that if you get the bottom one, you get the top one with it.

I'm not sure if the Lazy Newb Pack includes a simple way to do this, but there is a way to make it easier to see where grass and other open ground is. If you get Dwarf Fortress, go into your dwarf fortress folder/data/init, find the d_init.txt file, then go through it until you find this line:

[VARIED_GROUND_TILES:YES]

And change it to look like this:

[VARIED_GROUND_TILES:NO]

All the grass tiles will suddenly look identical instead of being varied.



As for having difficulty determining how slopes affect the landscape... That's kind of a problem with the engine. You won't be able to fix that with a graphics set. You might be able to get a better feel for the landscape with a visualizer, like Stonesense, but that's not really a fix for the problem. It mostly just takes a trained eye to learn how to deal with slopes like that.
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Sutremaine

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Re: Beginner questions
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2011, 11:01:42 pm »

Ramps aren't a big deal in their natural environment. Just leave them alone and they'll leave you alone too. XD Stick with stairs for the moment, they're a little more sensible. Those have a downwards-leading stair on their upper level, and an upwards-leading stair on their bottom level. Both of these actually, y'know, exist, so dwarves use them both when they walk up and down stairs. Graphical tilesets make these a lot easier to work with, as the defalt ASCII renders them as > and < respectively.
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I am trying to make chickens lay bees as eggs. So far it only produces a single "Tame Small Creature" when a hen lays bees.
Honestly at the time, I didn't see what could go wrong with crowding 80 military Dwarves into a small room with a necromancer for the purpose of making bacon.

rephikul

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Re: Beginner questions
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2011, 11:06:20 pm »

Just stuff like this makes my brain hurt lol, I wonder if I do pick up this game, if ill be able to understand it better.
Judging from this, I dont think you are fit with tutorial videos. Load up the game anyway, I recommend vanilla ASCII or phoebus because they both have easily distinguishable tiles. Play the game and use the wiki to learn things as you play. Expect throwing forts away alot.
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tolkafox

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Re: Beginner questions
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2011, 11:15:10 pm »

I spent two days watching 5ippycup's tutorial before I actually turned the game on. A lot of his information is outdated, and some (like sending melee military after wild groundhogs) can be misleading, I tried this and they just chased the groundhogs around until they left the map. But between those, the forums, and trial and error I learned how to play.

For starters, learn how to produce food and drink, how to build beds, tables, and chairs, and the useful quantum stockpiles. After that, traps and walls (they go together) and have fun with everything else.

Oh, and stay away from aquifers. They aren't user friendly.

"Hello, and welcome to part 23 of lets play dwarf fortress. I'm sippycup..."
« Last Edit: January 19, 2011, 11:17:35 pm by tolkafox »
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IceMage88

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Re: Beginner questions
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2011, 11:19:11 pm »

Sounds like sound advice talkafox. Is this the kind of game you have to start over with alot? Can you get back on your feet quickly, or does it take a long time to restart. Im going to assume  yes/no and it does take a long time for those questions.


 Looks like im gonna pick a tileset you've all recommended and trial and error my way around for a bit.

 
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NecroRebel

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Re: Beginner questions
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2011, 11:34:38 pm »

Sounds like sound advice talkafox. Is this the kind of game you have to start over with alot? Can you get back on your feet quickly, or does it take a long time to restart. Im going to assume  yes/no and it does take a long time for those questions.


 Looks like im gonna pick a tileset you've all recommended and trial and error my way around for a bit.
Early on, you'll probably be making mistakes that are fatal or ragequit-worthy fairly often. You might take a week of playing before you get to the second year for the first time. Accidentally caving in your entrance, flooding your fort in an attempt to get underground water, losing all of your miners with their picks inaccessible so you can't dig anymore... These are all things you may very well do. Fortunately, the fact that you can do these things very early means that it doesn't take long to get back to the place where you were at before (though it might seem that way at first).

Generally, I'd recommend starting with extra picks (you start with 2 by default) so early digging goes faster. Start off by attempting farming (there's a stickied thread about how to do this in 31.x on the Gameplay Questions forum page), then do masonry things, like making a dining room and doors, and carpentry, especially beds for your dwarves, then go on to traps, moats with drawbridges, chained guard animals, and other basic defenses. These basic tasks may end up in all different forts, mind you, if you start needing something that you haven't tried yet, but they can all go in the same fort, too (eventually they'll pretty much have to, after all).
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ext0l

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Re: Beginner questions
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2011, 11:54:18 pm »

Don't forget: Losing if Fun!  :)
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tolkafox

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Re: Beginner questions
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2011, 12:03:05 am »

My dwarves lasted a month before starving, you can't get much lower than that :) I was so happy when I made my first stockpile, and they actually moved stuff into it.

Also: No invasions. Up to you if you want to use this version or not, but there are absolutely no invasions or ambushes which makes things a heck of a lot easier to learn. After you feel comfortable enough to handle goblins, update to .18 and have fun.

You could also turn invasions off in the raws, but I keep this version handy for Fun research fortresses.
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Schmlok

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Re: Beginner questions
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2011, 01:06:32 am »

This has a list of graphics set threads, and each usually has a sample of graphics. http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=28829.0

varied ground tiles in the data/init/ init files to off helps a lot

If the above ground elevation is confusing, try and find a flat embark by pressing tab a couple times in the choose embark screen, cycle to cliff and elevation.

Just relax and remember to learn and have fun from accidents/failure rather than getting upset :)
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