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[Sutremaine]

Nether-caps.

[LilGunmanX]

ie: You being offended offends me. Stop that.

This, this, a thousand times THIS!

First and foremost, I would like to make it known that I am sorry for indirectly derailing this thread, and also for injuries that may have been incurred in the resulting SHITSTORM blown from the ass of my very own, and only, post on this thread. It was not my intention for that to happen when I made the post; in fact, my post was not even really meant to be all that humorous. In retrospect it is really is a rather funny post, but at the time it had seemed like a perfectly valid comparison. What's wrong with comparing a fortress with a gas chamber to a camp with a gas chamber, regardless of the history that surrounds either?

While I am sorry that I rather derailed this thread, I will not give my apologies for the actual content of my post. I personally feel it is rather ludicrous that anybody would go out of their way to be offended for a group of people not of their own family, race, preference, or religion. Yet, what's even more laughable is that, in a thread about the "Worst thing you've done in Dwarf Fortress" no less, these same people felt the continued need to be offended in the name of Jews everywhere even after a member of that religion had openly his desire to start a "Nazi science fort" and also that talk of Nazis was acceptable to him. It would seem this poor fellow's opinion was completely disregarded by those who would defend him.

What I'm saying is this: If every single person who was offended by that post of mine was Jewish, I would consider an apology to be in order. However, it would rather seem that every single person who claimed offense was... presumably... not Jewish! And they even went as far as to ignore the opinion of the only Jew who has actively declared his faith in the whole thread, a thread which is not for those who would be easily offended, no less! How ridiculous. I actually do find it rather offensive that these same ridiculous people are the same ones telling us such condescending things such as that we should "read more." Clearly we must be uneducated, unread buffoons if we do not feel the same level of unwarranted compassion for the Jews as they do, correct? What a stupid presumption!

Personally, I feel that all circle-jerking over who is more politically correct should be saved for www.livejournal.com, not our beloved Bay12 forums. Nobody here, and especially not in a thread about who is the worst of the worst ethically, will be impressed by your desire to stand up for a people who do not need to be stood up for by anyone other than themselves. Rather, your getting offended for this people implies that they are unable to feel offended for themselves, that they are unable to defend themselves verbally, and ultimately that they need their asses wiped by some sheltered, likely school or college-aged PC-Police gentiles. Watching people be offended (at all, really... those who can't laugh at others clearly can't laugh at themselves!) for a group of people which they are not a part of is simply a pathetic attempt to impress people by showing them how multicultural you are. To you, I say...

"Get bent."

It was unwise of you to come here to begin with because of the nature of this thread, a thread where somebody with an easily-offended heart should not be, but you chose to be here anyway and as a result you have relinquished any right you may have perceived yourself to have had to dictate how we act or what we say within this thread.

[LilGunmanX]

ie: You being offended offends me. Stop that.

This, this, a thousand times THIS!

First and foremost, I would like to make it known that I am sorry for indirectly derailing this thread, and also for injuries that may have been incurred in the resulting SHITSTORM blown from the ass of my very own, and only, post on this thread. It was not my intention for that to happen when I made the post; in fact, my post was not even really meant to be all that humorous. In retrospect it is really is a rather funny post, but at the time it had seemed like a perfectly valid comparison. What's wrong with comparing a fortress with a gas chamber to a camp with a gas chamber, regardless of the history that surrounds either?

While I am sorry that I rather derailed this thread, I will not give my apologies for the actual content of my post. I personally feel it is rather ludicrous that anybody would go out of their way to be offended for a group of people not of their own family, race, preference, or religion. Yet, what's even more laughable is that, in a thread about the "Worst thing you've done in Dwarf Fortress" no less, these same people felt the continued need to be offended in the name of Jews everywhere even after a member of that religion had openly his desire to start a "Nazi science fort" and also that talk of Nazis was acceptable to him. It would seem this poor fellow's opinion was completely disregarded by those who would defend him.

What I'm saying is this: If every single person who was offended by that post of mine was Jewish, I would consider an apology to be in order. However, it would rather seem that every single person who claimed offense was... presumably... not Jewish! And they even went as far as to ignore the opinion of the only Jew who has actively declared his faith in the whole thread, a thread which is not for those who would be easily offended, no less! How ridiculous. I actually do find it rather offensive that these same ridiculous people are the same ones telling us such condescending things such as that we should "read more." Clearly we must be uneducated, unread buffoons if we do not feel the same level of unwarranted compassion for the Jews as they do, correct? What a stupid presumption!

Personally, I feel that all circle-jerking over who is more politically correct should be saved for www.livejournal.com, not our beloved Bay12 forums. Nobody here, and especially not in a thread about who is the worst of the worst ethically, will be impressed by your desire to stand up for a people who do not need to be stood up for by anyone other than themselves. Rather, your getting offended for this people implies that they are unable to feel offended for themselves, that they are unable to defend themselves verbally, and ultimately that they need their asses wiped by some sheltered, likely school or college-aged PC-Police gentiles. Watching people be offended (at all, really... those who can't laugh at others clearly can't laugh at themselves!) for a group of people which they are not a part of is simply a pathetic attempt to impress people by showing them how multicultural you are. To you, I say...

"Get bent."

It was unwise of you to come here to begin with because of the nature of this thread, a thread where somebody with an easily-offended heart should not be, but you chose to be here anyway and as a result you have relinquished any right you may have perceived yourself to have had to dictate how we act or what we say within this thread.

EDIT: I would also like to make it known without wasting another post that I will not be responding to any more posts on this subject matter. And also I am very happy that so many people wish to put my idea to good work in killing many millions of more dwarves.

[Zrk2]

ie: You being offended offends me. Stop that.

This, this, a thousand times THIS!

First and foremost, I would like to make it known that I am sorry for indirectly derailing this thread, and also for injuries that may have been incurred in the resulting SHITSTORM blown from the ass of my very own, and only, post on this thread. It was not my intention for that to happen when I made the post; in fact, my post was not even really meant to be all that humorous. In retrospect it is really is a rather funny post, but at the time it had seemed like a perfectly valid comparison. What's wrong with comparing a fortress with a gas chamber to a camp with a gas chamber, regardless of the history that surrounds either?

While I am sorry that I rather derailed this thread, I will not give my apologies for the actual content of my post. I personally feel it is rather ludicrous that anybody would go out of their way to be offended for a group of people not of their own family, race, preference, or religion. Yet, what's even more laughable is that, in a thread about the "Worst thing you've done in Dwarf Fortress" no less, these same people felt the continued need to be offended in the name of Jews everywhere even after a member of that religion had openly his desire to start a "Nazi science fort" and also that talk of Nazis was acceptable to him. It would seem this poor fellow's opinion was completely disregarded by those who would defend him.

What I'm saying is this: If every single person who was offended by that post of mine was Jewish, I would consider an apology to be in order. However, it would rather seem that every single person who claimed offense was... presumably... not Jewish! And they even went as far as to ignore the opinion of the only Jew who has actively declared his faith in the whole thread, a thread which is not for those who would be easily offended, no less! How ridiculous. I actually do find it rather offensive that these same ridiculous people are the same ones telling us such condescending things such as that we should "read more." Clearly we must be uneducated, unread buffoons if we do not feel the same level of unwarranted compassion for the Jews as they do, correct? What a stupid presumption!

Personally, I feel that all circle-jerking over who is more politically correct should be saved for www.livejournal.com, not our beloved Bay12 forums. Nobody here, and especially not in a thread about who is the worst of the worst ethically, will be impressed by your desire to stand up for a people who do not need to be stood up for by anyone other than themselves. Rather, your getting offended for this people implies that they are unable to feel offended for themselves, that they are unable to defend themselves verbally, and ultimately that they need their asses wiped by some sheltered, likely school or college-aged PC-Police gentiles. Watching people be offended (at all, really... those who can't laugh at others clearly can't laugh at themselves!) for a group of people which they are not a part of is simply a pathetic attempt to impress people by showing them how multicultural you are. To you, I say...

"Get bent."

It was unwise of you to come here to begin with because of the nature of this thread, a thread where somebody with an easily-offended heart should not be, but you chose to be here anyway and as a result you have relinquished any right you may have perceived yourself to have had to dictate how we act or what we say within this thread.

EDIT: I would also like to make it known without wasting another post that I will not be responding to any more posts on this subject matter. And also I am very happy that so many people wish to put my idea to good work in killing many millions of more dwarves.

Now that one was in genuine bad taste.

[Urist is dead tome]

I would like to make it know that I am not Jewish, a homosexual, handicapped, a Freemason, or anything that Hitler actively hated. I found this offensive because my grand father's homeland was near entirely burned by the Nazis as they were forced into Norway. I am not say Jews, a homosexuals, handicapped people or Freemasons aren't capable of defending themselves. I was saying it was in poor taste.

 I consider racial slurs to be in poor taste. Does that mean I think that people addressed by those slurs are unable to defend themselves?

[Sutremaine]

I personally feel it is rather ludicrous that anybody would go out of their way to be offended for a group of people not of their own family, race, preference, or religion.

If you need to go out of your way to be offended for somebody who's not part of your 'people like me' group, you're probably not a very nice person.

[LilGunmanX]

I really promise this will be my last post on this subject matter, simply because I do not wish the goers of this forum to have a bad impression of me.

I personally feel it is rather ludicrous that anybody would go out of their way to be offended for a group of people not of their own family, race, preference, or religion.

If you need to go out of your way to be offended for somebody who's not part of your 'people like me' group, you're probably not a very nice person.

You're clearly assuming that "feeling sympathy or empathy for someone" and "feeling offended for them" are the same thing. Of course I feel sympathy and empathy for victims of such a horrible situation, but I will not pretend that I understand what they went through... that would truly be ignorant and insensitive of me. I feel that people who do claim offense for such a situation, when they do not claim descent from anybody who was was victimized and weren't involved themselves, are ignorant of the actual suffering those people went through.

To Urist Is Dead Tome: What I said was this... "I personally feel it is rather ludicrous that anybody would go out of their way to be offended for a group of people not of their own family, race, preference, or religion."

I included the word "family" in there for a reason. He is your family, it is more than rightful to feel upset for him. And moreover, I was not referring explicitly to you in this; I more so aimed this at the people who started spouting text-walls about WWII history like they had been there in some vain attempt to prove how politically correct they are. However, I did not clarify this in my post, so I apologize for the misunderstanding.

To Zrk2: Well, is it wrong to feel a sense of contribution when you lend an idea to those who would put it to good use?

[Deadly Lamarr]

I actually do find it rather offensive that these same ridiculous people are the same ones telling us such condescending things such as that we should "read more." Clearly we must be uneducated, unread buffoons if we do not feel the same level of unwarranted compassion for the Jews as they do, correct? What a stupid presumption!

The person to whom you refer, Maklak, has expressed a belief that the Holocaust is no longer important. In other words, he was most likely not offended by "Dwarfschwitz" at all. About three people expressed distaste for your post; what little "shitstorm" there was was mostly directed at Maklak.

Sorry, but you made an ass out of yourself with that post.

[Randy Gnoman]

I used to create spike chambers to deal with unwanted immigrants.  At first, I used densely clustered spikes of high quality material.  This was a quick, efficient way to get rid of the excess population.  Then, I got really into forest fortresses, with wood as my primary material.  Obviously, wooden spikes don't do the job as well as steel- so that made the process a little more drawn out.  Also, I didn't want to use all of my wood on a spike pit (I was already importing stone to make the derned mechanisms!)- so instead of filling each square with ten spikes, I just put one in each.  I had to let a dwarf sit there repeatedly pulling the lever until everyone was dead, and sometimes it took a while.  But, it was quicker than starving chambers, so I could usually take care of the unwanted before the next wave of immigrants arrived- just in time to haul the clothing of the last wave into the finished goods stockpile.

That, and the mermaid thing.  Although, I actually never finished my mermaid factory.  Did anybody complete that project?

Oh, and I regard the elven caravan as a valuable food source.

And when I use cage traps, I usually strip my prisoners and toss them into pits filled with vicious animals.

And when I start fortresses in good biomes, I always make it a point to capture fairies.  Not because they have a particularly high petvalue, but just because I like the idea of having fairies in terrariums.  That might be considered kind of a minor evil relative to the other things, except that my dwarves tend to eat a lot of live fairies- which I do try not to let them do, but hey, you can't forbid every fairy on time.

Gosh, I guess I do a lot of not-so-nice things.  Oh, but:  I almost always make a point of having a good cook handy.  No raw plump helmets for my dwarves!  Every day is *chopped elf liver roast* day!  Surely, that's worth some karmic brownie points.

[darkrider2]

I once designed a chamber that captured elven caravan's.

It was built entirely out of glass, something elves hate. Burning logs were periodically thrown in. Also My booze pile and dinning tables were built in a circle around the chamber (made of glass) so they could watch the suffering elves. The corpses, bones, and body parts of just about any animal I could find were thrown in too, on fire of course.

My rehabilitation chamber never did manage to rehabilitate one elf back into the world of reality and out of the fantasy land they choose to live in. Most elves just went berserk or stark raving mad. But I guess since dwarves themselves are pretty much insane, then that would count as re-educating the elves to our way of thought.

Oh, and it was suspended over a pit of magma, which you could see through the glass.

[G-Flex]

One more thing, tough. WW2 happened over sixty years ago. It was a tragedy, a lot of people died, but I think it is time to move on. People still keep mentioning nazis and holocaust, as if they were important now. We have other problems at hand, like possible peak oil, starvation, prison camps, that currently exist, unstable economic system, and so on.

You have no sense of historical scale. Sixty years ago is not that long ago at all. Slavery in the US ended a century and a half ago, and we're still feeling the socioeconomic ramifications of that. Hell, there are still living survivors of the Holocaust, as well as surviving anti-Semitic/Nazi sentiment in some areas and amongst some people, as well as some folk hanging around (even on this forum) interested in eugenics, and you want to relegate it to the dustbin of history already? Seriously? History does not work that way. Large-scale things like slavery, the Holocaust, and yes, the Soviet gulags and even American internment camps tend to have very deep roots that don't just go away overnight, and ramifications that can be felt for a very long time. When it comes to things like these, you can't think in terms of years or even decades; you have to think in terms of generations.

[zephyr_hound]

In defense of LilGunmanX

I think it's pretty obvious that he didn't mean this. I found his post funny, perhaps that says something unpleasant about me but w/e. I am now reassessing my own reaction to that post and I still feel that the post itself was innocent, but people have read things into it and other people responded based on that, not the original post. I mean if we're going to get all moral over this, then 90% of what people do (burning Elves alive, really?) is going to turn out to be "just like the holocaust" anyway. And then I guess everyone stops playing DF in disgust at themselves. Let's just stop talking about Nazis and WW2, ok? It's not accomplishing anything

[Toady One]

Muting Maklak and LilGunmanX for two weeks each.