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[Urist Imiknorris]

I will wear it with pride.

[Maklak]

This is turnig into a huge offtop, but anyway I'll answer.

History revisionists, called "holocaust deniers" managed to demistify some of it, and thats a good thing.

Holocaust deniers claims that holocaust - as in systematic murder of entire human group with specified characteristics - did not happen at all. Check dictionary next time, maybe mysterious words like "denier" will be clearer.

They are a diverse group. Some say, holocaust didn't happen at all. Most say, that it is grossly (pun intended) exagerrated, and the death toll was lower, and therefore making such a big deal out of in is unjustified. "Holocaust denier" is an umbrella term to ridicule / isolate anyone who has any doubts about the official version of holocaust and speaks about it. History revisionists ar often name-called holocaust deniers to discredit them, and their work.

OK, so I went on a rant. Now I'll propably be lynched by forum dwellers.

If only you had sufficient IQ to know why lynched...

Oh, I know why, and it has little to do with intelligence. Propaganda surrounding holocaust is a big success, and people will attack anyone, who disagrees with it. There are some award-winning movies every year about it, people keep talking about it in the media, and so on. I assure you, it is quite clear to me, why people don't like to hear what I'm saying.

Here are some interesing links:
http://www.onethirdoftheholocaust.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vyrp_8wibEk

One more thing, tough. WW2 happened over sixty years ago. It was a tragedy, a lot of people died, but I think it is time to move on. People still keep mentioning nazis and holocaust, as if they were important now. We have other problems at hand, like possible peak oil, starvation, prison camps, that currently exist, unstable economic system, and so on.

It seems no one agrees with my views here, so lets just drop the issue. This is my final post on the matter, unless somebody forces me to go on.

Back on topic: This game practically forces people to be cruel. If not directly to your Dwarfs, then to animals and invaders. As a game it would be much less !fun! if it played like sim city with no outside threats, but still.

I don't think, I've corossed the moral event horizon yet, but I already did some bad things. Invaders have it comming, but "mobile kitten rovers" dying to FB in caverns were a bit sickening to me. Still, it mostly worked. Only a small portion of the caverns remains undiscovered, and no Dwarfs died. 

[Bererez]

Except that dwarves are monogamist.

Even better! Breeding pens!

[Encased in burning magma]

when one spore is taken the rest are informed via radio waves that someone's taken.

I think the male dwarf and the female dwarf attune in mysterious and sexy ways.

Offtop: Maklak, I do agree with part of your views, but man, you are kind of stating the obvious.

[Draignean]

I suggest we reenact the crucifixion of the Christ next time. A truly overlooked part of History. Suggesting an elf in the role of Jesus F. Christ.

Oh dear lord.

I must now do this using Crossbow bolts, a 100 Z tall, 50 X wide all wooden cross, an elven caravan, and a strategically placed trade depot.



 

[Lagslayer]

when one spore is taken the rest are informed via radio waves that someone's taken.

I think the male dwarf and the female dwarf attune in mysterious and sexy ways.

Offtop: Maklak, I do agree with part of your views, but man, you are kind of stating the obvious.

You do realize you used the words "dwarf" and "sexy" in the same sentence, right?

[Deadly Lamarr]

@Maklak:

I have to note that, ironically, you seem to feel more strongly about the Holocaust than anyone else in this thread. I don't know what you expected your post(s) to accomplish.

On Topic: Dwarves are the sexiest creatures with beards and stubby legs. Ever.

[Urist is dead tome]

I feel that many of my forts really show the horrors of war. Especially when goblins simply charge up to the traps.

And far more importantly it shows the laziness of dwarves, in that they don't pick carious goblin pieces. By the end of goblin season I have a shortage of crying Indians.

[madciol]

They are a diverse group. Some say, holocaust didn't happen at all. Most say, that it is grossly (pun intended) exagerrated, and the death toll was lower, and therefore making such a big deal out of in is unjustified. "Holocaust denier" is an umbrella term to ridicule / isolate anyone who has any doubts about the official version of holocaust and speaks about it. History revisionists ar often name-called holocaust deniers to discredit them, and their work.

Do you are aware that such different views in one group do not help you? Because, you know, one could get impression that particular numbers are picked according to wishes, not knowledge or facts. And in your place I would not want to be associated with various... interesting... folks there.

Like, you know, neo-nazis, that basically claims that Holocaust did not happen, but it should happen again. One could think that they would savior it - not deny - even if this try was failure. But since when conspiracy paranoia had anything to do with logic, reality or sanity? :>

Here are some interesing links:
http://www.onethirdoftheholocaust.com/

I admit this link is interesting, but not in way that you probably intended. :] Unfortunately, as non-english speaker watching non-captioned fims was... problematic. Anyway on net are many other pages about holocaust denialism, so I do not think I missed any significant arguments.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vyrp_8wibEk

I love argumentum ad youtubium.

People still keep mentioning nazis and holocaust, as if they were important now.

This is important - atrocities done by nazis and communists - and this will be important always, until human is human. Or do you think there are no wars or exterminations now? Or doing holocaust to some group is impossible? Or concentration camps/lagiers?

I have to note that, ironically, you seem to feel more strongly about the Holocaust than anyone else in this thread.

Oh, I also feel strongly - because certain mindsets fascinates and scares me. Holocaust denialism is only one obvious, yet small part of paranoia industry. We have creationists, global warming deniers, "alternative" medicine with Big Pharma scarce and anti-vaccinations, UFO conspiracies (including shapeshifting reptilioids), 9/11 (duh!) and way too many, many more retarded in(s)anity. Not to mention political and economical concepts firmly detached from reality (communism, anyone?). And as bonus you can lose faith in humanity on regular basis. What is not to like?

[darkrider2]

Like, you know, neo-nazis

Yes, russian spies are your next door neighbors, your school has been perpetrated by propaganda, and the cylons look just like us now.

Listen, Racism in ANY form is just wrong, it's also hard to avoid, I've caught myself a couple times as well. So instead of attacking each others personal beliefs based on a reference to an event that happened over 50 years ago, lets rerail this topic and get back to the real issue.

Dwarf fortress, has probably absolutely the best moral choice system of any game, EVER. It's not just good or evil, there's no direct reward for being good or being evil, and there's no game mechanic saying "you are an evil bastard" or "you are an angel from god."

The only person left to determine what was good and what was evil, is the player, letting it weigh down on his/her own conscience until they've realized, or at least believe, they are approaching the point of being too evil (or too good in some cases), and make a post like this one on the forum.

But almost like an evolutionary adaptation, most of us on the Dwarf Fortress forums have purged ourselves of a self-reflective conscience. So the side effects of being evil have no credit here.

[Skelodwarf]

The moral compass isn't exactly helped by the communities willingness to flood the wiki with jokes, (which I won't try and say aren't funny), such as "Unfortunate accidents". See below.

Urist McNoob: Oh hum-de-dum-dee-dum, just browsin' me a wiki, tryin' to find out how to make mr crankypants over there happy...

Urist McNoob: Just gotta get me some aluminum, like he says, yup yup yup... Ooh, what's this?

*Later*

Urist McCrankyMayor: Gurgle gurgle gurgle *hisssssss*

- - -

And that's why we can't have good things.

[darkrider2]

Yes, but it makes the wiki more enjoyable to read. Also there is no 'wrong' direction for a new player to go, even if he takes suggestions from the community.

[Ipwnurmom221]

Maybe this is why people have trouble learning DF?

Smaller amount of players, but a lot funnier for us!

"The weak shall be culled so the strong can have nicer socks."
"The slow learners shall be culled so the fast learners can laugh their asses off watching noobs try to make magma traps out of wooden items"

[Sentientdeth]

Hey! If I build it enough times, my oaken magma launcher will work eventually...

[Ipwnurmom221]

But the forumers told me that alder can build resistance to fire!