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Total Members Voted: 7

Voting closed: February 05, 2011, 03:28:32 pm

[Deadmeat1471]

'Initially, the Ares V would launch the Earth Departure Stage and Altair lunar lander when NASA returns to the Moon, which is currently planned for 2019, but would also serve as the principal launcher for missions beyond the Earth-Moon system, including the program's ultimate goal, a manned mission to Mars after 2030'

[MonkeyHead]

How does the escape velocity of a lagrange point compare to a terran or lunar orbit?

Lagrange points are when F_net=0 ... so technically exerting any force could cause acceleration away from it towards a planetary body (down its gravity well). I.e. minimal velocity can "escape" from them. Of course, such points are limited and determied by relative positions of planets/sun/moon. Lagrange points are loved by people looking for a good place to put a sat, as it seriously reduces the amount of fuel needed to hold a position, dramatically increasing the useable life of said sat. Good place for manned resupply bases?

[mainiac]

@ Mainiac - I'm guessing, a Lunar base established, established but small. Earth launched modules to dock with construction base (Think ISS but bigger), then a undock/earth orbit - mars orbit injection. Thats my first thinking anyway. But hopefully I (we) can create a system which would allow people to be open minded in their choices somewhat.

How about as a middle ground between earth based and lunar based we have a starting infrastructure of a military solar satellite station used to beam power to hotspots on earth.  Thus there would be a toehold in space used as a launching point.

Wasn't the Ares system cancelled?  Unless you are going alt-verse where it wasn't cancelled, I'd recommend just calling the first rocket tech tier by the general "Nova" term.

[Deadmeat1471]

Wasn't the Ares system cancelled?  Unless you are going alt-verse where it wasn't cancelled, I'd recommend just calling the first rocket tech tier by the general "Nova" term.
[/quote]

All manned space flight was pretty much cancelled,  so we can assume we are very mudh in an a-historic theme

[mainiac]

How about an alt universe set in the year 2000?  During the second term of President Gore mankind sets its' eyes on mars...

[Deadmeat1471]

Ok if we consider the 2000 idea.


We are working with modern technology with no advanced/futuristic.
To begin we would be using the ISS and transporting equipment to it for future missions.
First would be a base on the moon. This is pre lunar outpost. (I wouldnt force people to get a lunar base first, but there would be penaltys for not doing so.)


Considering what I have learnt so far.

The equipment accessable to players would be:

Main stage rockets bigger and bigger ones- for earth to ISS transfer.
ISS id imagine would have its own expansion (more modules, more crew, more supplies)
'Kickers' - boosters for trans-lunar movement (and trans-mars later).
Strap-on boosters for additional lift from earth orbit, also could be attached later for mars missions.
larger LEM style landing craft (for lunar/martian landing) THEORETICAL - WOULD NEED IN GAME RESEARCH
Space shuttle usage as a standard.
Unmanned recon drones for both mars and the moon.

I'm currently reading through articles on both the moon and mars to determine better how this can be done.

[Deadmeat1471]

I would say an alternate 2010 start would be better. With an eye for the planned Orion missions as a start to the game.

[forsaken1111]

Yes, should certainly include an option to modernize the old Orion concept for mars travel. It would require some research, as would anything.

[Deadmeat1471]

Just thought id do a kind of 'concept' report to see if the flavor we have in mind is right. Using the BARIS system.

Orion-13

G. Taylor (Astronaut)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Capsule skill: 3
LEM skill: 1
EVA skill: 2
Docking skill: 2
Endurance: 2
Mood: 100

S. Slayton (Astronaut)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Capsule skill: 2
LEM: 2
EVA: 2
Docking: 1
Endurance: 3
Mood: 100

Orion 13:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Crew module (85%)
Service module (85%)
Autodocking module (75%)
Launch abort sytem (Saftey: 90%)
Ares I rocket (Safety: 90%)
LEM (Safety 80%)
Notes:
Autodocking system (crew skill not taken into account, but better safety if designed well)

2015 Lunar landing mission

Stage one: Launch

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Need <90 (Ares I rocket lower stage)
Rolled 75

PICTURE

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Launch is successful, moving to next stage.

Stage two: Orbital insertion burn

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Need<90 (Ares I rocket upper stages)
Rolled 15

Orbital insertion successful, moving onto orbital activities in preperation for ISS dock.

Stage three: Earth orbital activities

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Need<85% (Service module)
Rolled 11

Activities successful, moving onto dock with ISS for 'cargo' loading.

Stage four: Autodock with ISS

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Need<75% (autodocking module) + (2 - Taylors docking skill)
Rolled 18

Docking successful, cargo loaded.

Stage five: Trans-Lunar injection

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Need<85% (Service module + (3  - Taylors Capsule skill))
Rolled 23+3

TLI burn successful, duration stage next between earth and the moon.

Stage six: Duration

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

need/<85% (Service module + (3 crews total endurance/2))
Rolled 1

Duration successful, performing Lunar Orbital Insertion burn next.

Stage seven: LOI burn

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Need<85% (Service module + (3 - Taylors capsule skill))
Rolled 84

LOI burn successful, Lunar activities next.

Stage eight: Lunar activities

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Need<85% (Service module, Taylors capsule skill)
Rolled 15

PICTURE

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Lunar activities successful, lunar descent next.

Stage nine: LEM decent

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Need<80% (+ Slayton LEM skill 2)
Rolled 6

LEM descent successful, landing achieved.

Stage ten: LEM ascent

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Need<80% (+ Slayton LEM skill 2)
Rolled 35

LEM ascent successful, attempting autodock with Service module next.

Stage eleven: Docking LEM with CSM

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Need 75% (Autodocking module)
Rolled 47

PICTURE

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Docking successful.

Stage twelve: Trans-Earth Injection burn

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Need<85% (+3 Crew capsule skill)
Rolled 54

TEI successful.

Stage thirteen: Duration

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Need<85% (+3 crew endurance/2)
Rolled 97

Malfunction in electrical equipment, partial power failure.

Stage fourteen: earth orbital activities

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Need <85% (+3 crew capsule skill)
Rolled 16

Orbital activities successful

Stage fifteen: Re-entry

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Need<85% (+3 crew capsule skill)
Rolled 73

Re-entry successful.

Stage sixteen: Landing/recovery

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Need<85% (no crew skill bonus)
Rolled 52

Landing successful! Orion 13 mission complete.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[Deadmeat1471]

What I learnt:

*I missed the mid course correction burn after duration was resolved.
*I will institute an attrition roll between every burn. Between 1 and 4% safety will be lost each burn to the service module because of wear and tear.
*Mars would need an extra rocket stage (which was launched prior to this) to be docked with after ISS dock.
*I didnt roll for mood loss during 'duration'
*Reading about the Ares V, i have discovered it is the Orion which does the OIB not the Ares. An error on my part.
*Docking with 'Earth Departure Stage' would be used for moon base/Mars base landings. This would have been launched prior to this mission.
*LEM needs an 'Equipment power on' stage, as does redock with EDS.
*missing de-orbit burn
*orbital activities need looking at.

Comments/ideas welcome, how does this look?

Keep in mind this mission had one malfunction and was more than 10 times shorter than Mars. Mars would have the same missions, but alot more duration stages. Over 3 (monthly)turns.




Timeline I've researched:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(Ares V upper stage:  EDS)
(Ares V lower stage = J-2X rocket, seperates before orbit)
1st stage of Ares V, seperation on launch
J-2X rocket performs OIS burn
Orion seperation with EDS
Orion redocks with EDS  (Lunar lander is in EDS)
J-2X then performs TLI burn
Upperstage Ares V EDS/J-2X rocket seperation from Orion/Lander combination

EDS = Earth Departure Stage

Based on my research on Orion/Ares I've earmarked these technologies for use within the game:

Autodocking system (need to find the name) expensive but efficient
J-2X rocket
Earth Departure Stage rocket (Upper stage J-2X rocket)(In BARIS a Kicker a,b or c)
Service modules
Crew modules
Moon and Mars landers
The ISS and optional addon modules (Such as science research, larger crew compliments/environmental modules)
Space shuttle
Unmanned probes (Lunar and Mars)

[Deadmeat1471]

Added some pics I made (Via Orbiter2006) to the report. They need resizing.

[Deadmeat1471]

No one has any comments? criticisms?

[MonkeyHead]

All logical to me...

Question: Am i wrong in assuming a Saturn V would be a viable lanch craft for a Mars mission?

[Deadmeat1471]

From my knowledge, you'd probably need two Saturn V's, or the equivilent. (Ares V has this)

Orion has two main booster stages while leaving orbit and inserting into orbit, then a Earth Departure Stage, which is another rocket stage.
I believe the Saturn V has two stages on launch, but thats it. So if thats true, it wouldnt be able to do a Mars MANNED mission. Unmanned maybe! but definitely no heavy cargo mission.

[Deadmeat1471]

In 1962, Aeronutronic Ford,[14] General Dynamics and the Lockheed Missiles and Space Company made studies of Mars mission designs as part of NASA Marshall Spaceflight Center "Project EMPIRE".[8] These studies indicated that a Mars mission (possibly including a Venus fly-by) could be done with a launch of eight Saturn V boosters and assembly in low Earth orbit, or possibly with a single launch of a hypothetical "post Saturn" heavy-lift vehicle.

Post Saturn being Ares. The Saturn seems obsolete to me.