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Author Topic: How to charge/bill in a new law firm?  (Read 2883 times)

LeoLeonardoIII

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Re: How to charge/bill in a new law firm?
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2011, 07:22:37 pm »

I suggest you stay away from flat fees until you know you can do the job super fast. And be careful with excessive fees since there may be rules against it. I guess that's the only advice I can give.

Oh, yeah, don't listen to the Huffington Post. Wear whatever underwear you want unless it's for some batshit reason in your ethical codes or the court rules. Judge asks to see your underwear, tell him you wrote your client's briefs on it and you can't show him.

LEGAL PUN oh no everyone what will we do
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Truean

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Re: How to charge/bill in a new law firm?
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2011, 07:46:34 pm »


Marketing, I just can't help but feel this will be every college event ever: beer and/or free food = show up. Otherwise no.

Rotory Club, Kiwanis, church, all that?

Any interesting ideas from anyone? Just curious.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2015, 08:44:07 pm by Truean »
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Current Spare Time Fiction Project: (C) 2010 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63660.0
Disclaimer: I never take cases online for ethical reasons. If you require an attorney; you need to find one licensed to practice in your jurisdiction. Never take anything online as legal advice, because each case is different and one size does not fit all. Wants nothing at all to do with law.

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Truean

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Re: How to charge/bill in a new law firm?
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2011, 07:48:36 pm »

I suggest you stay away from flat fees until you know you can do the job super fast. And be careful with excessive fees since there may be rules against it. I guess that's the only advice I can give.

Oh, yeah, don't listen to the Huffington Post. Wear whatever underwear you want unless it's for some batshit reason in your ethical codes or the court rules. Judge asks to see your underwear, tell him you wrote your client's briefs on it and you can't show him.

LEGAL PUN oh no everyone what will we do

Agreed. Seriously if you, and I don't care how rich you are, try to regulate what underwear I wear, you are getting told to stop it and getting fired. You know what I'm going to say about you "boss" when asked about it.

"The last guy I worked for was a pervert who wanted to see everyone's underwear and regulate what they could wear. That's why I quit."

Personal... decision.... Get over yourself corporate.... Butt... out... of my butt....
« Last Edit: March 14, 2015, 08:45:08 pm by Truean »
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The kinda human wreckage that you love

Current Spare Time Fiction Project: (C) 2010 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63660.0
Disclaimer: I never take cases online for ethical reasons. If you require an attorney; you need to find one licensed to practice in your jurisdiction. Never take anything online as legal advice, because each case is different and one size does not fit all. Wants nothing at all to do with law.

Please don't quote me.

hemmingjay

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Re: How to charge/bill in a new law firm?
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2011, 11:24:19 am »

What area do you live in? For the money you are looking for I can't comprehend an established attorney not hiring you for what you want to charge customers. You are pricing yourself at $35-150 an hour. I know lawyers in NY, Conn, and Mass who all have more work than they know what to do with and you are right, they charge $200+ an hour. Flat fee attorneys tend to work harder and for less, so it's your choice. Also keep in mind, the cases you take now affect your value later.
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Truean

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Re: How to charge/bill in a new law firm?
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2011, 02:38:21 pm »

What area do you live in? For the money you are looking for I can't comprehend an established attorney not hiring you for what you want to charge customers. You are pricing yourself at $35-150 an hour. I know lawyers in NY, Conn, and Mass who all have more work than they know what to do with and you are right, they charge $200+ an hour. Flat fee attorneys tend to work harder and for less, so it's your choice. Also keep in mind, the cases you take now affect your value later.

The issue is getting clients right out of law school. I'm smart; so what? Need paid for smarts....

Advantages of working for another lawyer include getting his stream of clients.
Disadvantages include getting paid less.

I dunno....
« Last Edit: March 14, 2015, 08:45:58 pm by Truean »
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The kinda human wreckage that you love

Current Spare Time Fiction Project: (C) 2010 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63660.0
Disclaimer: I never take cases online for ethical reasons. If you require an attorney; you need to find one licensed to practice in your jurisdiction. Never take anything online as legal advice, because each case is different and one size does not fit all. Wants nothing at all to do with law.

Please don't quote me.

LeoLeonardoIII

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Re: How to charge/bill in a new law firm?
« Reply #20 on: February 01, 2011, 02:36:42 am »

You also need to set yourself up. I mean, while you might think you don't need an office, you will recieve snail mail. A PO box isn't going to cut it if you want a paperless office, right? You still need someone to scan all the incoming mail and shred it.

If there are so many lawyers down on their luck, why not start a law firm with a few of your buddies who can pull their own weight? You all pool your resources for office expenses, refer cases to each other if it's outside your specialty, etc. Sure you rely on each other, and you aren't absolutely free to do whatever you want, but it sounds more secure than going it alone.

Are you confident you know enough about running a law firm to do it yourself?
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Truean

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Re: How to charge/bill in a new law firm?
« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2011, 10:35:17 am »

You also need to set yourself up. I mean, while you might think you don't need an office, you will recieve snail mail. A PO box isn't going to cut it if you want a paperless office, right? You still need someone to scan all the incoming mail and shred it.

If there are so many lawyers down on their luck, why not start a law firm with a few of your buddies who can pull their own weight? You all pool your resources for office expenses, refer cases to each other if it's outside your specialty, etc. Sure you rely on each other, and you aren't absolutely free to do whatever you want, but it sounds more secure than going it alone.

Are you confident you know enough about running a law firm to do it yourself?

Well, I will certainly need an office and am already looking into that a year ahead of time with furnishings etc. So far I'm going for cheap rent. You want a lawyer or a place with a six story waterfall in the lobby? 'Cause don't think you're not paying those inflated fees for that waterfall....

Keyphrase: "who can pull their own weight?" Many unfortunately can't and believe it or not, it's usually the ones with GOOD grades who can't.... I spent four years of law school working for a lawyer, researching/writing/filing his motions. How're those alcohol catered socials and law library setup working for you other law student? Any clients in there? I mean seriously they do not know where the courthouse IS, much less what to do when they get in there. I had to literally tell them directions for a trail ad final exam in the court. You have to know which offices to go to in what order and what you're doing there, because the clerks will just look at your like the idiot you are if you're a lawyer and you don't know.... They do not teach court procedures in law school and you are sunk without that.

I am specifically worried that these other students will be behind me in practicality and knowing how to do things.

However, that said, I'd LOVE to find a decent lawyer to partner with. It is hard to do everything all at once and scheduling conflicts  will inevitably arise. I simply can't be in two courtrooms at once. Also all the office expense splitting stuff you mentioned, but partners are like room mates. Simply, good ones are great, bad ones SUCK. If I can find the good one, then awesome. Otherwise, eh....

As far as core competencies, I have 'em. Criminal defense, wills, probate, real estate, family law-- been doing that for four years now as a clerk. Yeah, there are some things I' not as good at as my boss, but there you are.... He's been doing this for... we stopped counting after 30 years, hence the retirement.

Flat Fees:
I dunno. This kind of works for me personally and I think it's a good idea for numerous reasons. First and foremost, the client knows exactly what to expect upfront, which is when I get paid, also good. It gives clients and myself more predictability. Well defined service contract means I determine the scope of the work beforehand and we agree to it. That way they tend not to feel cheated, because they knew what they were getting into (including the uncertainties of law) from the get go.

As an additional bonus to the client, it rewards my efficiency. Lawyers are crafty and who the crap are we kidding, not ethical really. Let's see, some dude comes into the office and is being sued. Now, he can handle this with a letter, but on an hourly billing schedule, that's what $200-$300? Yeah, or he could say, "investigate" a few more options to make sure nothing bad could happen and charge for 5 billable hours. That's $200 or $1000, which do you think the smart lawyer's gonna take? Keep in mind this is all perfectly legal for him to do. That's right, billable hours screw over the client. Also, I can do the work at the hour of the day I feel like it. Translation, more flexibility for me.

That said, I need to manage the risk of this. Lots of up front information is required. The scope of the services also needs to be defined. If I dig around and discover that your "simple real estate job" is the project from hell, guess what, the contract doesn't cover that. If I have to spend 30 hours digging around for records in the county archives to clear a 70 year old title problem, guess who's paying extra for that? That's right, and it's that way cause it wasn't part of the original contract. It's kind of like a change order in a construction contract.

I'm even cool with contingent fees, but the customer has to realize they personally bear certain risks in any legal setting. I get paid no matter what in criminal defense and it is ILLEGAL AS HELL to set up a contingency contract where the lawyer only gets paid if you get out of it. Lawyer gets disbarred and both lawyer and client might go to jail in this jurisdiction. Yeah....

It's a question of finances, operations, marketing and risk management.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2011, 10:39:52 am by Truean »
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Current Spare Time Fiction Project: (C) 2010 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63660.0
Disclaimer: I never take cases online for ethical reasons. If you require an attorney; you need to find one licensed to practice in your jurisdiction. Never take anything online as legal advice, because each case is different and one size does not fit all. Wants nothing at all to do with law.

Please don't quote me.

Truean

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Re: How to charge/bill in a new law firm?
« Reply #22 on: February 01, 2011, 01:40:31 pm »

The real issue is finding clients.... This is more difficult than it sounds.

The phone book just is expensive and doesn't work as well, though its an option I suppose.

Websites: only if they come up in a search for the results you want ("Criminal Defense Lawyer," DUI, DUI Attorney, Real Estate Lawyer, Divorce Lawyer, etc)

Personal Interaction, the stuff of rainmakers. Groups, groups and more groups. These are primary purpose things with secondary purposes.





« Last Edit: March 14, 2015, 08:48:10 pm by Truean »
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The kinda human wreckage that you love

Current Spare Time Fiction Project: (C) 2010 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63660.0
Disclaimer: I never take cases online for ethical reasons. If you require an attorney; you need to find one licensed to practice in your jurisdiction. Never take anything online as legal advice, because each case is different and one size does not fit all. Wants nothing at all to do with law.

Please don't quote me.

Lord Shonus

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Re: How to charge/bill in a new law firm?
« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2011, 01:49:10 pm »

Maybe the Public Defender's office?
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Truean

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Re: How to charge/bill in a new law firm?
« Reply #24 on: February 01, 2011, 10:42:14 pm »

Maybe the Public Defender's office?

[sigh] Possibly. It's actually hard to get in anywhere as they are turning out more and more lawyers in a tough market.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2015, 08:48:35 pm by Truean »
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The kinda human wreckage that you love

Current Spare Time Fiction Project: (C) 2010 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63660.0
Disclaimer: I never take cases online for ethical reasons. If you require an attorney; you need to find one licensed to practice in your jurisdiction. Never take anything online as legal advice, because each case is different and one size does not fit all. Wants nothing at all to do with law.

Please don't quote me.

mnjiman

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Re: How to charge/bill in a new law firm?
« Reply #25 on: February 08, 2011, 03:44:03 am »

The key to correct pricing for your services depend on its perceived value to the consumer. Do you have something to offer other business's do not? Why would they want to come to you instead of other firms? Is there ways you could increase you firms value through alternative benefits that other firms do not offer? I assume your very knowledgeable in all of this already, so I hope you get my point by now.

The mean thing you need to do though is research. Find out all you can about your competition. Learn about their own advertising. Learn about their tangible and intangible benefits. Learn about their missions, objectives. Maybe get stats on dollar amounts....

What I am getting too is this, you need do an entire marketing analysis before starting a business. If you do it correctly, all your answers you seeking on the forums will be answered through research and analysis of that research. There is simply no other way if you want to do this right.
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Lord Shonus

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Re: How to charge/bill in a new law firm?
« Reply #26 on: February 08, 2011, 07:43:00 am »

Have you considered signing on with a union? I just got into the Teamsters, and they have a lawyer on retainer and a Legal Defense Fund that part of our dues goes into. They handle any legal issues a union member might face. If you could get on something like that, you'ld have a steady source of clients and guaranteed payment.
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Truean

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Re: How to charge/bill in a new law firm?
« Reply #27 on: February 09, 2011, 05:50:51 pm »

Not sure I get your meaning.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2015, 09:02:36 pm by Truean »
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The kinda human wreckage that you love

Current Spare Time Fiction Project: (C) 2010 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63660.0
Disclaimer: I never take cases online for ethical reasons. If you require an attorney; you need to find one licensed to practice in your jurisdiction. Never take anything online as legal advice, because each case is different and one size does not fit all. Wants nothing at all to do with law.

Please don't quote me.
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