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[Sowelu]

A better question about the LA sewers: There are two shortcut exit doors leading back to the main downtown sewers. They lead to doors of the same height downtown, yet link to two sections of the sewers, one much older and deeper than the other.

For that matter, if the old-ass 1970's/1950's sewers are so sealed off, why are there such easily-accessible doors leading back to the surface?

Meh.  They don't show all the stairs and twisty little passages you use to get between them, since you wouldn't fight anything there.  Easily accessible door leads through dark, cramped holes in walls and dank crawlspaces.  Abstraction!

[Dakk]

The level design was indeed rushed though, the environs just felt crampedand enclosed, even the supposedly outdoor ones. There's virtualy no place in the game werey ou can use the sniper rifle like, uh, a sniper rifle. Still a great game though, am I the only person that bothered with firearms?

[G-Flex]

Firearms are pretty useful, especially later in the game. They really, really suck early on, when all you have are things like the peashooter revolver and pump-action shotgun.

[Ivefan]

• I don't think you know what a "regent" is.
• Diablerie is an extremely inhumane practice even for vampires, can taint you with the lingering soul of the dude you diablerized, and, on top of that, would be discouraged by those in power regardless because they'd be at risk for it.
• what the hell is a "sireling"

• "A regent, from the Latin regens "one who reigns", is a person selected to act as head of state (ruling or not) because the ruler is a minor, not present, or debilitated."
  Well, I forgot what they called the vampire ruling the city so i said regent.
• The way I see it, a newly made vampire reacts in two ways. Either by trying to stay 'human' or embracing the vampirism.(within limits of the masquerade)
  'discouraging' it would be a understatement. I believe they stake the one doing it.
  In what form would this taint manifest, madness?
  I also thought that vampires no longer had souls, or am I mixing that up with some other fiction?
• A Vampire that makes a human into one is called Sire, thus making the new vampire his/her sireling

[nenjin]

In this thread we try to demonstrate our superior knowledge of WoD over each other. It's like the Vampire version of the Skryim thread!

Anyways, Celerity, good fire arms and the magnum, and you'll never ever need to melee, not even against most bosses. Bishop Vick? Shotgun + Celerity = him dead in two mags.

[G-Flex]

A "regent" in V:tM is the head of a Tremere chantry. JFYI.

The "taint" manifests as things like residual personality traits, and the person's soul fighting against yours in general if it's strong.

And yes, vampires have souls. Otherwise they'd be, what, zombies?

]A Vampire that makes a human into one is called Sire, thus making the new vampire his/her sireling

By this logic, a human that makes another human is called a parent, making the new human his parentling. In other words, no, that's not how words work. For the record, the term in V:tM is "childe" (the game's full of sorta-pretentious stuff in its lexicon).

The way I see it, a newly made vampire reacts in two ways. Either by trying to stay 'human' or embracing the vampirism.(within limits of the masquerade)

Except if you don't try to stay human, you end up sliding down a slope leading to complete corruption by The Beast really, really, quickly, and end up an unthinking monster who has to be put down.

Of course, there are other "Paths" of morality you can take, but they're distinctly inhuman, alien, and the Camarilla (at least) doesn't support them.

[Sowelu]

In what form would this taint manifest, madness?

Well, you could always go ask the Garou.  Vampires measure things on a scale of "humanity", which is...kind of abstract and somewhat subjective, I suppose.  Werewolves (and to a lesser extent Mages) on the other hand keep a lookout for Wyrm taint, which is almost without exception linear with "evil" seeing as the Wyrm is the literal primal force of destruction.  All vampires are tainted (and not infrequently kill-on-sight), but diablerie kicks that wyrm-taint up several notches.  It's BAD.  It twists your aura with black veins.  It turns you closer to destruction on a universal scale; some might even argue that Wyrm taint hastens the end of the world.

Of course, that's just silly cosmology, stuff that the elder Garou try to indoctrinate the cubs with, it has no real basis in reality.  Right?  Right..?


btw, I always figured that vampires did lose their souls while retaining their full intelligence (hence why they're not zombies).  Maybe that's NWoD?  In any case, lack of soul means that in a way, you are already inherently alien.  You're already an animal.  You can control it, you can seek personal salvation, you can seek a belief in The Right Thing to Do--which is, by default, the path of Humanity--but your soul is lost regardless.  As human as you might try to be, that's the fundamental difference between you and them.

[G-Flex]

btw, I always figured that vampires did lose their souls while retaining their full intelligence (hence why they're not zombies). 

None of the rest of this paragraph matters because this sentence isn't true. Vampires have souls. When you diablerize a vampire, you ingest it.


Also, I'm not sure the wyrm-related stuff exists in oWoD Mage, and oWoD games aren't meant to overlap very well in terms of cosmology anyway.

[Ivefan]

I Read the PnP rule book sometime long ago but that is all and I don't recall much from it so I'm mostly thinking about stuff from this game.

A "regent" in V:tM is the head of a Tremere chantry. JFYI.

The "taint" manifests as things like residual personality traits, and the person's soul fighting against yours in general if it's strong.

And Tremere usually wish to consider themselves the rulers of the city. But whatever bloodline the vampire is from there is a leader of that line in the city who got rules they want obeyed.
The residual traits might be worth it unless one becomes erratic, schizophrenic or go mad.

And yes, vampires have souls. Otherwise they'd be, what, zombies?

Well, actually yeah. Just like ghouls, zombies, skeletons and whatever other undead abomination you can find.
I seem to recall that in this work of fiction it is the blood that matters, the body is a husk to house it with the exception of the heart.

By this logic, a human that makes another human is called a parent, making the new human his parentling. In other words, no, that's not how words work. For the record, the term in V:tM is "childe" (the game's full of sorta-pretentious stuff in its lexicon).

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sire
I seem to recall that in the opening sequence of this game they talk about this.

Except if you don't try to stay human, you end up sliding down a slope leading to complete corruption by The Beast really, really, quickly, and end up an unthinking monster who has to be put down.

I did not elaborate that enough.
Compare it to the vampires in the movie "Interview with the Vampire: The Vampire Chronicles". Where one refuses to drink from humans, trying to stick to human morals.
With 'within the limits of the masquerade' I ment to avoid just that which you described.

My point being - If you can get away with diablerie by being calculative in your actions and the consequences, It seemed a fast way to increase your strength.
And now I will go search for a pdf of the rulebook and see if my memory wrongs me.

[G-Flex]

And Tremere usually wish to consider themselves the rulers of the city. But whatever bloodline the vampire is from there is a leader of that line in the city who got rules they want obeyed.
The residual traits might be worth it unless one becomes erratic, schizophrenic or go mad.

"Worth it" or not, the fact is that it isn't you, which is still dangerous, especially if/when inner conflict becomes apparent.

Also, you're probably thinking of the Ventrue, who happen to be the political leaders of the Camarilla.

I seem to recall that in this work of fiction it is the blood that matters, the body is a husk to house it with the exception of the heart.

I guess? Regardless, they still have souls.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sire
I seem to recall that in the opening sequence of this game they talk about this.

I know what a "sire" is. Your "sire" is the vampire who "sired" you, and you are his "childe".

I did not elaborate that enough.
Compare it to the vampires in the movie "Interview with the Vampire: The Vampire Chronicles". Where one refuses to drink from humans, trying to stick to human morals.
With 'within the limits of the masquerade' I ment to avoid just that which you described.

My point being - If you can get away with diablerie by being calculative in your actions and the consequences, It seemed a fast way to increase your strength.
And now I will go search for a pdf of the rulebook and see if my memory wrongs me.

Humanity is a sliding scale. You can't exactly stick to Humanity 10 and drink from unwilling victims, but at Humanity 3 breaking into people's houses and assaulting them isn't a big deal to you anymore.

Diablerie is bad enough that it's worth an automatic penalty no matter where you are on the scale; you're literally stealing someone's soul and eating it. That's worse than killing someone, by far.

Yeah, it's a way to quickly get power if you have the opportunity, but there are a lot of dangers; vampires with Auspex can notice it in your aura for quite a while, the Tremere can figure it out from a small speck of your blood, and there are likely plenty of more mundane (and supernatural) means by which to figure it out. That's not even including the personal dangers encountered by eating a dude's soul and having it wriggling around inside you and affecting your mind.

[Ivefan]

Also, you're probably thinking of the Ventrue, who happen to be the political leaders of the Camarilla.
I know what a "sire" is. Your "sire" is the vampire who "sired" you, and you are his "childe".

Yeah I seem to have mixed in terms from other works of fiction and I also assumed that Tremere was the ones because I did not remember the names of the bloodlines.

On Diablerie.
Unless the revised rulebook changes it, The penalties are the corrupted aura which can last a few years, Chance for addiction, Loss of humanity and to possibly fail to consume the victims powers.
I did not see it mentioning anything about traits and conflict with the soul.

It seems to be a viable choice for an independent if properly planned and precautions are taken.

[nenjin]

It raises your generation, which has a direct impact on how high your traits can be. Which is an abstracted, gamey way of saying you devoured their soul and abilities.

[Sowelu]

I did not see it mentioning anything about [...] conflict with the soul.

I can't say anything for its presence in a rulebook, but it's a major part of fiction and backstory.  It doesn't always happen, but it's well-established in enough different works that even if it's not there in the rules, that's how everyone plays it...or maybe it's a concealed secret that every Storyteller knows, which they can spring on unwary players.  It's always a danger with major generation differences, though.

[G-Flex]

I can't say anything for its presence in a rulebook, but it's a major part of fiction and backstory.

It's mentioned in the core rulebook that I read, which is why I know about it. It was definitely in the last revision, if nowhere else and only mentioned briefly.


It's really only a "viable choice" if you can handle being a pariah to the entirety of organized Kindred, which is difficult unless maybe you're in an area under Sabbat control... but then you have other problems.

[Sowelu]

Man this is really making me want to app a vampire on a WoD MUSH :x