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Author Topic: Weaponizing a Dragon  (Read 2482 times)

Saetar33

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Re: Weaponizing a Dragon
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2011, 03:46:10 pm »

On the concern of flaming things:

Wut?
I saw something on the wiki that says you can MAKE lignite grates.  How on earth do you do that?
And also, I thought that if you tamed something, either a GCS or a dragon, it doesn't use its secondary.  :l
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Urist Imiknorris

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Re: Weaponizing a Dragon
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2011, 04:06:06 pm »

a) Lignite furniture can be made if you unrestrict it in the z-stones menu.

b) Tame creatures only (?) use ranged attacks in self-defense.
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Saetar33

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Re: Weaponizing a Dragon
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2011, 04:08:05 pm »

a) Lignite furniture can be made if you unrestrict it in the z-stones menu.

b) Tame creatures only (?) use ranged attacks in self-defense.

Thank you, I'll have to remember that.
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SlimyMarmot

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Re: Weaponizing a Dragon
« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2011, 05:07:52 pm »

b) Tame creatures only (?) use ranged attacks in self-defense.

In my experience tamed dragons are pretty much fire-at-will with their dragonfire, not hesitating to engage at range even if the enemy is fleeing naked goblins... in any case, taming shouldn't be a problem for the "experiments".
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Saetar33

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Re: Weaponizing a Dragon
« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2011, 05:27:14 pm »

Ok, this is odd.
I set lignite to be used as a non-economic rock (Y'know, they can make stuff with it) and have like 50 of them in a stockpile, but my mason keeps saying, "needs a non-economic rock" and won't make the grates.  It worked once; why shouldn't it work again?
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"Dug too deep...What the creep! What the hell is that?? Oh WHY'S IT COMING STRAIGHT AT US! Oh Urist IT'S THAT CAT . . " Magma bells outtake.    "Again, THIS HAS BEEN AGREED BETWEEN 2 RPers! EILWOOD DO NOT FIRE YOUR LAZER I REPEAT DO NOT FIRE YOUR LAZOR!"  I'm Eilwood.  :3  Nice to meet you too.  "BAAAAAAH"

martinuzz

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Re: Weaponizing a Dragon
« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2011, 06:09:41 pm »


  • Dragons will not spew flame through fortifications, despite having a target waiting right there.

In this scenario, did your dragon have pathing access to it's targets?
With a GCS silk farm, you trick the GCS into thinking it can path to it's targets by installing open (i.e. unlocked), but pet-impassable doors.
The way the game is programmed right now, this will cause the GCS to think it is able to path to it's target, which in turn allows it to shoot webs (max range for target: 4 tiles). If there's no path, it will not shoot webs, even if it's target is standing only 2 tiles away, within sight range, on the other side of the fortifications.

I can see though, how open, but pet-impassable doors could pose a problem for dragons, as they are building destroyers.

Which makes me wonder.. Can built artefact doors be destroyed by a building destroyer, seeing how they are indestructible and all that?
« Last Edit: January 15, 2011, 06:15:09 pm by martinuzz »
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Maklak

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Re: Weaponizing a Dragon
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2011, 06:23:29 pm »

I think ranged goblins will kill this thing. My big cats and elephant chained at the entrance barely survived 6 or something bowgoblins for 30 seconds, and only because I sent somebody to unchain them in time. I changed the entrance to L-shaped, but I need to install more traps. Dogs are even more useless :(

I'd like to see animal barding in this game. Even if it won't cover all body parts, having armored war bears, dogs and big cats could mean fewer dead dwarves each siege.
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SlimyMarmot

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Re: Weaponizing a Dragon
« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2011, 06:38:54 pm »

It'd be especially useful considering at least dragons can already wear armour, but getting them to put any on is the problem!
« Last Edit: January 15, 2011, 06:46:36 pm by SlimyMarmot »
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LilGunmanX

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Re: Weaponizing a Dragon
« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2011, 07:51:06 pm »

  • Dragons will not spew flame through fortifications, despite having a target waiting right there.
  • Dragons on a chain will not spew flame at targets they can't reach. (They will, however, kill any dwarves that try dragging it more than 10 tiles)
  • Dragons WILL spew flame at something it has engaged in combat, such as stray fortress pets, quite often.


You're actually a little wrong, Urist. Though it is true that dragons will not spew flame through fortifications despite being able to reach a desired target with their fire, their fire *will* travel through fortifications if it is spewed. I know this because fire has the same properties as all breath attacks. Recently I managed to cage a forgotten beast via the creative use of cage traps and a well-placed giant cave spider, so I experimented with breath attacks for awhile. This is what I learned:

*Breath does travel through fortifications
*Breath attacks will not be delivered through fortifications.
*Monsters with breath attacks will deliver breath attacks regardless of how close their target may be to their own body (meaning that a dragon would breathe fire onto a dwarf if they were occupying the same tile, irregardless of its own health.)
*Monsters with breath attacks will not always use their breath attacks as their first resort, so if you're planning to bait the monster into using breath attacks somehow, you'll probably want to use a creature which can take a lot of damage without dealing much in return, or you could use multiple weak animals.

Eventually, using all of the knowledge which I gained from my !!experimentations!!, I was able to construct... brace yourself for this...
A puppy-powered gas chamber.
   
   B
= = =
X X X
X X X
   D

B = Beast
= = Fortification
X = Gas chamber
D = Locked door

The design can vary, depending on the size of the breath attack, but the way I had mine set up was a 1x1 room (just one tile) for the forgotten beast, which is right next to a 2x3 room that it is separated from by fortifications. A hatch is directly above the 1x1 area, and then above that hatch is another floor. The idea worked like this: I would drop the puppies into the hole above the 1x1 room with the beast so that they would land on the hatch above it, totally unable to escape. Then I would drop a prisoner into the gas chamber via a similar system, and they would land in the 2x3 room. Once the prisoner was safely in the room, I would pull a level which would open the hatch from underneath the puppy, dropping it onto the same tile as the forgotten beast. The forgotten beast would then unleash spontaneous bursts of it's breath onto the puppy, which would in turn pass through the fortifications and effect the prisoners. After feeding the beast enough puppies the prisoners hypothetically should have died, but the beast itself was very weak and its breath attack was having no visible effects other than a numbing sensation, so the project was put on hold until I could get a better test subject. The only downside with the design, aside from having a weak beast, is that it requires a lot of... reloading. But since I started with 3F1M wardogs, I already had way too many puppies than I knew what to do with. Actually, with my design, your dwarves would even be safe to go scavenge the armor off of the gassed prisoners after they died, just so long as you don't feed the FB ;)

Since you have a dragon in your possession, actually killing your prisoners with it's flame-breath shouldn't be a problem at all using this method, and if you wanted to make your design more "practical" instead of having a whole chamber dedicated to the methodical slaughter of your invaders, you could put the dragon's 1x room at the end of a hallway and "feed" it once the goblins round the corner or otherwise run nearby it...

Actually... just imagine a whole hallway lined with these rooms! All the dead puppies... all the dead goblins! Muahahahaha!!!  ;D

EDIT: It has just occurred to me that dragons are both flying and building destroyers. In that case, you'll need to use a 1-tile retractable drawbridge instead of an actual hatch, and I recommend covering the "puppy-hole" area above the hatch with a separate retractable drawbridge PRIOR to flipping the lever which actually removes the bridge from underneath the puppydog or whatever other animal you choose to feed your new pet dragon. in the end, because it's a dragon it will require a little bit more work (two "hatches" instead of one, and also two separate levers for the "hatches") but this design can still be implemented safely. Without the extra hatch, you're risking the dragon flying up through the 1-tile space that the hatch usually occupies before you can close it back up, and then you're basically fucked. Also: I don't recommend feeding the dragon goblins because even unarmed goblins can eventually kill your dragon with repeated use.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2011, 08:01:41 pm by LilGunmanX »
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SlimyMarmot

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Re: Weaponizing a Dragon
« Reply #24 on: January 15, 2011, 08:32:45 pm »

I think it's been mentioned in the thread before, but vanilla dragons can not fly, so unless you're like me and rectified that to suit your perverted needs, there should be no need to compensate for that.

Also, from my own experience, feeding caught goblins to the dragon isn't really a problem because of the fact that as long as the source of the prisoners has retreated, the goblins will try to flee from the dragon (at least unarmed) and since they are running away from it, the thing that ends up killing them is the dragonfire -> little to no physical counterattacks. Even if they do fight back, from time to time, wouldn't minor injuries heal by themselves?

BTW, has anyone ever had prisoners gang up on an "executioner"? It has never happened to me, but it'd be interesting to hear other experiences.
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sir_laser

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Re: Weaponizing a Dragon
« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2011, 08:34:20 pm »

Quote
EDIT: It has just occurred to me that dragons are both flying and building destroyers.

Please, people. !!DRAGONS CANNOT FLY!!

This is from the wiki article on Dragon:
Quote
Dragons are gigantic fire-breathing Megabeasts. Cannot fly.
right at the top. http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Dragon

I've done extensive testing with Dragons in the arena. If you spawn a flier (Giant Eagle, for example) in Open Space, it stays up and doesn't fall. Dragons fall to their deaths.
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Drawde

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Re: Weaponizing a Dragon
« Reply #26 on: January 15, 2011, 10:13:13 pm »

Maybe make floors on the tiles that the goblins walk on, out of wood or coal?  I think that would catch fire, though I'm not certain.
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CapnUrist

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Re: Weaponizing a Dragon
« Reply #27 on: January 15, 2011, 11:08:01 pm »


  • Dragons will not spew flame through fortifications, despite having a target waiting right there.

In this scenario, did your dragon have pathing access to it's targets?
With a GCS silk farm, you trick the GCS into thinking it can path to it's targets by installing open (i.e. unlocked), but pet-impassable doors.
The way the game is programmed right now, this will cause the GCS to think it is able to path to it's target, which in turn allows it to shoot webs (max range for target: 4 tiles). If there's no path, it will not shoot webs, even if it's target is standing only 2 tiles away, within sight range, on the other side of the fortifications.

I can see though, how open, but pet-impassable doors could pose a problem for dragons, as they are building destroyers.

Which makes me wonder.. Can built artefact doors be destroyed by a building destroyer, seeing how they are indestructible and all that?

That would make sense; my experiments had the dragon stuck with no possible pathing. However, one experiment did include a door; the dragon ignored the goblin I had outside its cage in favor or ripping to door apart; by the time it was done the goblin had hit the cage traps, and the dragon then did the same.

Maybe make floors on the tiles that the goblins walk on, out of wood or coal?  I think that would catch fire, though I'm not certain.

I hadn't thought of making the hall flammable! If I can find some lignite and make grates from it, that'll add a lovely spin to the trap; one gobbo gets close enough, THEY ALL BURN HAHAHAHA. Ahem. I'll probably have to develop some sort of extinguishing system to go with it, to allow the harvesting of goblinite.

You're on your third siege and still don't have a viable militia???

This fort is a little different than other "traditional" types; I'm not digging down (i know, how elven of me) but instead constructing a big glass tower structure above the river; supported by an oversized water trap designed to wash invaders off the sides like fleas with water from the river. The dwarves are currently living in a "fort" that is little more than a few holes dug into the side of a hill and filled with beds, chairs and tables. It's been considerably expanded since the beginning of the siege, however; I may have to dig some farms inside eventually, if this shit keeps up. Also, it's only year 3 and a fourth siege showed up before I destroyed them (I counted 96 invaders loose before letting them in!), so the goblins are really looking to wreck my shit.
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Re: Weaponizing a Dragon
« Reply #28 on: January 16, 2011, 07:37:26 am »

BTW, has anyone ever had prisoners gang up on an "executioner"? It has never happened to me, but it'd be interesting to hear other experiences.
They sometimes fight back if they can't path out and are cornered, already in melee range or have ranged weapons (they'll fire while they retreat).
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Namfuak

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Re: Weaponizing a Dragon
« Reply #29 on: January 16, 2011, 12:01:43 pm »

Could you just have a hallway of repeating spike (and when they work, weapon) traps so that the goblins are all chewed up by the time they get to the dragon, who could then make mincemeat roasts out of them?
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