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Author Topic: Narnia: Don't think of it as an allegory...  (Read 3811 times)

Sowelu

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Narnia: Don't think of it as an allegory...
« on: January 13, 2011, 05:35:48 pm »

The third Narnia movie.

Am I the only person who really gets a huge kick out of the religious allegories?  Sort of?  (Except in the last book, because the Islamic allegories are just mean.)  I think that you can look beyond it, and carry it back out of allegory territory and into fantasy again.

BTW, I'll try to stay out of actual interesting spoilers here.  I don't think it's a spoiler that Aslan says at the end of the third book/movie that the kids were brought to Narnia to meet him that they may know him in the real world by another name.  So yeah, Aslan basically says himself that he is Jesus.  It's not heavy-handed inference, it's in-universe canonical fact.


But here's the thing.  And no offense meant to Christians here...even if you don't actually believe the stuff, Christianity makes a pretty awesome fantasy story.  Historical!Religious fiction is super sweet.  Fantasy stories that assume Christian elements are often good, because hey...the religion is successful because it can be pretty compelling at times.  Narnia takes those elements and replaces the dude with an even-more-personal lion.  Hell I'd fight for awesome lion dude and, when you read it as fiction instead of an allegory, the moralizing is not bad at all.

If you take it one step further in the "religious fantasy" direction, and say "Jesus exists AS an unseen mythological character on the real-world side", it gets even more badass.  I mean how cool is that in any fantasy work.  You've got a multiverse that has the same God across multiple universes, just different avatars, and he's actively working with an adventuring party across space and time.  He sends them to Narnia so he can talk to them IN PERSON, along with bringing them into his fold in the normal world, while training them to be awesome for some personal reason of his.  Clearly he wants them to be good people back on Earth...but my personal interpretation is that he wants them to be heroes there, too.  And not just in the "All truly moral people are superheroes" way.

It is established that there are quite a few universes in the multiverse, yeah.  More than just Earth and Narnia.  There's a very wide variety and...well, that's just plain a favorite genre of mine.  Some of my other favorite series do it too, like
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

A lot of people had...issues...with the last book.  It took place in Narnia again, obviously.  I think it would have been a lot cooler if it took place entirely in the real world.  Like say, the walls of the multiverse start crashing down, Narnia spills over into the real world, or maybe just the Apocalypse happens.  Honestly as a pure fantasy novel the last book isn't all that bad, but you have to avoid thinking of it in real-world terms.  If you read it as allegory, it's truly horrifying, on the same level as reading Orson Scott Card's editorial writing (hint: DON'T).

« Last Edit: January 13, 2011, 05:45:50 pm by Sowelu »
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Zrk2

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Re: Narnia: Don't think of it as an allegory...
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2011, 05:43:25 pm »

What's the point you're trying to make here?
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Sowelu

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Re: Narnia: Don't think of it as an allegory...
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2011, 05:45:30 pm »

That they are good books, especially if you say "The religious allegory is in-world, directed at the characters instead of the reader".

They get a bad rap because of the Jesus thing, but religious fiction isn't bad, even for nonbelievers.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2011, 05:47:29 pm by Sowelu »
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WorkerDrone

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Re: Narnia: Don't think of it as an allegory...
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2011, 05:52:21 pm »

I'm glad I read this when I wasn't old enough to be religiously influenced or recognize when there's a bleeding allegory right under my nose.

I would have ranted for months.
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Gunner-Chan

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Re: Narnia: Don't think of it as an allegory...
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2011, 05:54:12 pm »

Honestly. Even if I read it now. With people pointing towards things I would probally STILL miss it.

I'm about as dense as a muffin.
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WorkerDrone

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Re: Narnia: Don't think of it as an allegory...
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2011, 05:55:03 pm »

Being daft is sorta cute, really.
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Leafsnail

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Re: Narnia: Don't think of it as an allegory...
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2011, 05:55:36 pm »

Well, Phillip Pullman is a well known outspoken atheist.  There's definitely an anti-church sentiment in his books, but I'm not so sure about religious allegories.

EDIT: Just to be clear, I was responding to the Dark Materials thing.  I know he didn't write the Narnia books :P.
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KaguroDraven

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Re: Narnia: Don't think of it as an allegory...
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2011, 05:56:56 pm »

I don't care either way to be perfectly frank. When I read the witch and the wardrobe I thoughr aslan was implying he was the creepy old guy who's house they where in, but then again I was a kid at the time. I also tend to read up on alot of religions, both ones still practiced and dead ones, becouse the stories in them make for great ficiton, even if one or more might be true.
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Ochita

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Re: Narnia: Don't think of it as an allegory...
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2011, 05:57:20 pm »

Hmmmm... Aslan is Jesus? Screw religion, I have a atheist view!
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fqllve

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Re: Narnia: Don't think of it as an allegory...
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2011, 05:58:56 pm »

Well, Phillip Pullman is a well known outspoken atheist.  There's definitely an anti-church sentiment in his books, but I'm not so sure about religious allegories.

EDIT: Just to be clear, I was responding to the Dark Materials thing.  I know he didn't write the Narnia books :P.

I think HDM was a religious allegory. I mean, it does posit "The Authority" as an actual extant being. Just a shitty, despotic, and ineffectual one.

Anyway, I always found the Narnia books less of a religious allegory and more of a morality tale. Peter, for example.

I don't care either way to be perfectly frank. When I read the witch and the wardrobe I thoughr aslan was implying he was the creepy old guy who's house they where in, but then again I was a kid at the time. I also tend to read up on alot of religions, both ones still practiced and dead ones, becouse the stories in them make for great ficiton, even if one or more might be true.

The Magician from the Magician's Nephew? That book was actually written later than The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2011, 06:00:55 pm by fqllve »
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KaguroDraven

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Re: Narnia: Don't think of it as an allegory...
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2011, 06:00:10 pm »

Hmmmm... Aslan is Jesus? Screw religion, I have a atheist view!
I think the atheist view would be 'Aslan did exist, and he may have been a good and kind lion, but he was not born of a virgin lioness and his father was a lion not some make beleive deity'
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ChairmanPoo

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Re: Narnia: Don't think of it as an allegory...
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2011, 06:01:22 pm »

I have only read the caspian prince, and did so when I was 10 or so. I recall it as stupid and annoying, even though I did not notice the religious rant aspect back then .  In retrospective, it explains many things as to why I found the book annoying.
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Sowelu

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Re: Narnia: Don't think of it as an allegory...
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2011, 06:03:45 pm »

You know, even if I was previously an atheist, I think I would convert if I met a talking lion who was good and kind, could teleport and read my mind, and who led armies and ate people on the battlefield.

Best.religion.ever.
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Ochita

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Re: Narnia: Don't think of it as an allegory...
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2011, 06:05:21 pm »

Hmmmm... Aslan is Jesus? Screw religion, I have a atheist view!
I think the atheist view would be 'Aslan did exist, and he may have been a good and kind lion, but he was not born of a virgin lioness and his father was a lion not some make beleive deity'
Also his kingdom is just their minds playing out one last hallucination as they go. In fact Narnia is just caused by odors from wood cleaners.

Ha ha noooo (Not going off topic here sir.)
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Armok

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Re: Narnia: Don't think of it as an allegory...
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2011, 06:06:53 pm »

Quote
With a   critical eye, Peter looked over the encamped Centaurs with their bows,   Beavers with their long daggers, and talking Bears with their chain-mail   draped over them. He was in charge, because he was one of the mythical   Sons of Adam and had declared himself High King of Narnia; but the truth   was he didn't really know much about encampments, weapons, and guard   patrols. In the end all he could see was that they all looked proud and   confident, and Peter had to hope they were right about that; because if   you couldn't believe in your own people, you couldn't believe in anyone.
"They'd   scare me, if I had to fight 'em," Peter said finally, "but I   don't know if it's enough to beat... her."
"You don't   suppose this mysterious lion will actually show up and help us, d'you?"   said Lucy. Her voice was very quiet, so that none of the creatures   around them would hear. "Only it'd be nice to really have him, don't you   think, instead of just letting people think that he put us in charge?"
Susan   shook her head, shaking the magical arrows in the quiver on her back.   "If there was really someone like that," Susan said, "he wouldn't have   let the White Witch cover the land in winter for a hundred years, would   he?"
"I had the strangest dream," Lucy said, her voice even   quieter, "where we didn't have to organize any creatures or convince   them to fight, we just walked into this place and the lion was already   here, with all the armies already mustered, and he went and rescued   Edmund, and then we rode alongside him into this tremendous battle where   he killed the White Witch..."
"Did the dream have a moral?" said   Peter.
"I don't know," said Lucy, blinking and looking a little   puzzled. "In the dream it all seemed pointless somehow."
"I think   maybe the land of Narnia was trying to tell you," said Susan, "or maybe   it was just your own dreams trying to tell you, that if there was really   such a person as that lion, there'd be no use for us."
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