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[Sir Pseudonymous]

Pseudonymous, capitalism works right up until the bigger capitalists can buy their way to power.

...

It seems like you're just elaborating on this point with all that:

(a non-profit driven organization [Meaning an organization with power and without a profit motive] is required to prevent the actions which are not beneficial, but still lead to success for those performing them [Such as all that shit you listed])

A properly run centralized economy to prevent the excesses of capitalism wouldn't be hard, given enough manpower and resources to manage it. The wrench gets thrown into the works by ideologues and crooks who sabotage and exploit it in the name of greed, madness, or their twisted ideologies. So to properly manage a country, one must act within what is possible given their confounding influences, which means capitalism with government oversight, and as much anti-corruption measures as can be taken. Of course, implementing those too gets sabotaged by the crooks who lead only to fill their own pockets, but it is still a far more attainable goal than a centralized economy.

[Oakenshield]

To explain my 'foolish' conclusions to you under those terms would render them foolish.

Rather than be hostile, I'll explain it in detail.

1. I live in America.
2. I'm tired of getting completely f*cked over by people like the administration at BP, bernie madoff, Enron, FEMA, the 9/11 commission and a host of other people.
3. If you are a natural citizen of a country you have a duty to that country. Firstly to improve it and therefore yourself. Secondly to honor its laws and customs. Thirdly to support that countries just social and military ends. Fourthly to not cheat the government out of its rightfully appointed tax money. Fifthly to not exercise undue influence on any given political election. The list goes on but I believe my point is clear.

I'm not saying don't think. I'm saying don't sh*t where you eat. Don't ruin your home country so badly that you move away and never look back because its a real shit-pipe. To do so IS treachery, and it IS cowardice to not attempt to prevent it.

My family has had at least one member in every generation in the Armed Services of some sort possibly since the Civil War period, for sure since World War 1 period. Don't tell me not to be Patriotic.

[ed boy]

I'm afraid that the target of your agressions may be misplaced.

For example, you say "I'm tired of getting completely f*cked over by people like the administration at BP".
Presumeably, you're referring to the Deepwater horizon explosion and resultant oil spill of 2010. BP were not responsible for that. The company that owned and operated the drilling unit was Transocean. I'm afraid that the majority of your other examples I cannot effectively comment on, as I am not american.

Finally, you describe what you consider to be a duty that citizens have to their country. Not only are the list of duties debateable (for example, during nazi germany, should the average german citizen have honored the laws of customs of their country?), but it bring up the question as to whether an orginaization is considered a citizen (I bring up organization, as the examples you gave were large orginizations or people from large orginizations). That is a very debateable point. Not only do they have completely different laws reply to them, but an orginazation can operate in multiple countries, often with contradictory legal systems.

[Zrk2]

To explain my 'foolish' conclusions to you under those terms would render them foolish.

Rather than be hostile, I'll explain it in detail.

1. I live in America.
2. I'm tired of getting completely f*cked over by people like the administration at BP, bernie madoff, Enron, FEMA, the 9/11 commission and a host of other people.
3. If you are a natural citizen of a country you have a duty to that country. Firstly to improve it and therefore yourself. Secondly to honor its laws and customs. Thirdly to support that countries just social and military ends. Fourthly to not cheat the government out of its rightfully appointed tax money. Fifthly to not exercise undue influence on any given political election. The list goes on but I believe my point is clear.

I'm not saying don't think. I'm saying don't sh*t where you eat. Don't ruin your home country so badly that you move away and never look back because its a real shit-pipe. To do so IS treachery, and it IS cowardice to not attempt to prevent it.

My family has had at least one member in every generation in the Armed Services of some sort possibly since the Civil War period, for sure since World War 1 period. Don't tell me not to be Patriotic.

Ah, fascism. That's one way to make sure your country goes somewhere.

[ed boy]

No, what happened was that someone from BP demanded that lighter seawater be used instead of heavy drilling mud. The official from Transocean argued against it. The workers on the rig didn't like it. The BP executive got his way. And this was after a whole lot of corner-cutting, with employees being effectively pressured into ignoring safety concerns.

I looked at the wikipedia page and can't see mention of it. Can give a source for this?

[Siquo]

wealthy elites who would do anything and everything they could do to protect their own interests

They're human beings. Take a random man off the street and chances are he'll do the same. What's your patriotic ass gonna do, kill em all?

(As for family pride: NONE of my traceable forefathers for at least until 1600AD has ever served a single month in the military. I'm so proud )

[Oakenshield]

If you knew Oligarch X was COMPLETELY FUCKING RUINING YOUR COUNTRY, to expand their own already sizable money, (money they absolutely don't need, at all) would YOU pull the trigger?

Or perhaps this is a better example, if you knew Oligarch Y has completely shut down the one thing that was keeping your community going, (a mill, a shipyard, etc etc), and that they did it only so that they would have a monopolized control in all but name over that industry, rendering a very large portion of your town on wellfair, without a job, or otherwise completely geFUCKED, wouldn't YOU be angry?

If you knew that Oligarch Z flagrantly bought the vote of your congress to run your economy and military into the ground so they can get their hands on oil in the middle east, could you truly say you wouldn't be pissed off?

This isn't about right or left. This is about addressing the flaws within the system. Don't tar me as a fascist, don't feather me as a communist, I'm neither.

I'm against money becoming so valuable that people who control sizable amounts of it (at the oligarch scale), that they think (rightly) that they can do anything, kill anyone, or change any already existing detail of the world we ALL live in, any fucking time they want to.

If its wrong and socially unacceptable to care about your home country I'm socially wrong and unacceptable and don't care.

[Siquo]

I'm just saying, remove them, and another will take their place. Vengeance is never an answer. I know your anger, I feel it too, but we can't go up there and shoot them all (however fun that might be). It won't solve anything. Do something constructive, and ignore them. Power is only people listening to you. Stop listening, stop buying from them, tell everyone else to stop, and offer an alternative.

[Oakenshield]

If the rich keep acting this way its only a matter of time till the enraged lower classes start kicking in doors and murdering people. If thats what it takes, then thats what it takes, but I don't see them changing their attitudes and actions (at all), unless a very real threat to their personal health and safety is immediately imminent. Like say, an enraged mob of factory workers wielding torches and shotguns blasts a hole in the enclaves walls and starts torching everything in sight. Unfortunately by then it will be to late for them to change their behavior.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJo0_llL1Q8

The 'we'll do better next time' rhetoric only works for so long. Particularly when its overtly a lie and everyone (or nearly everyone) secretly knows it is.

There comes a point at which a society becomes so corrupt and decadent that there is no way back and a new society must rise.

[Tellemurius]

alright so Obama's new SOTU address, are we gold here, economy is frigging large as hell yet our bill is fucked up.

[GamerKnight]

If the rich keep acting this way its only a matter of time till the enraged lower classes start kicking in doors and murdering people. If thats what it takes, then thats what it takes, but I don't see them changing their attitudes and actions (at all), unless a very real threat to their personal health and safety is immediately imminent. Like say, an enraged mob of factory workers wielding torches and shotguns blasts a hole in the enclaves walls and starts torching everything in sight. Unfortunately by then it will be to late for them to change their behavior.

Check out Cracked.Com. It's a comedy site, but check out 'What is the MonkeySphere'. It explains why the rich act the way they do.

[Ultimuh]

My take on politics: Avoid at all costs.
If that fails; become emperor of the world!
Edit: ..Or was it the other way around?

[GamerKnight]

Emperor? Screw that. I'm going to transfer my mind into a computer and end the world as we know it. I will then create life in a lab and watch it evolve over millions of years.

[Siquo]

Emperor? Screw that. I'm going to transfer my mind into a computer and end the world as we know it. I will then create life in a lab and watch it evolve over millions of years.

Again?

[GamerKnight]

I'm going to wipe out all life on Earth and start over.