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[Argembarger]

(vadia has requested a replacement, and TolyK conveniently came along, so

TolyK will be replacing vadia.)

[Zrk2]

TolyK, You're up, I hope you have fun -- this persecution play is not my cup of joe.

C'mon, that's the Fun of mafia!

[TolyK]

ok then
no hanging 'cause I just need to get here

[Ottofar]

What.

We won't no lynch. And the day'll go on for a week.

[Azure Sepulchre]

My apologies. I buggered off to get drunk at a party celebrating the fact that we have student loan money again instead of posting in this, which was a pretty dick move to you guys. Gonna try and actually be active from here on in, but I'm rather hung over at the moment so... yeah. Also, advice for life: never, ever play centurion. Ever. >.>

Anyway, I've had a quick review of the thread so far and I have my two FoS's lined up. Also, do not NL - it may seem like a good idea, but trust me; it isn't. We have no idea if we even have a cop or a doc, whereas we do know there are two maffers out there plotting our demise. Ignoring this possibility and going for a NV would be effectively sacrificing a townie for potentially no gain, depending on the roles we have been dealt. It's far too risky a move.

Anyway. FoS's are:

UristMcDwarf, for having the balls to OMGUS vote someone who voted him because he was lurking - a perfectly valid excuse for a vote (actually, I was rather bemused by the fact that only one person bothered to even take notice of lurkers. The last BM I was in was lost to a Mafia-lurker pairing - that were, admittedly, replaced later in the game, but the fact that they had been completely ignored rankles at me something awful). What I found especially interesting was the fact that Urist posted his response to vadia within the hour of the vote being placed on him; practically proof that he's been observing this game but has consciously refusing to post.

...aaaaand Zrk2, for the quoted post in the spoiler box below.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Everyone: Have you ever played Mafia before?

Yus. A fair number of times. But I'm trying to improve on my overall scumhunting ability, as - considering how I preformed in the last BM I was in - it requires some improving; as such, I don't consider myself a player of any real merit.

How would you play as town? as scum?

...hrm. You do realize these two questions are giving the scum everything they need in terms of information, allowing them to blend in correctly by getting everyone to point out what they consider town-tells and scum-tells? Not to mention the fact that town gains nothing from any answer to this question due to the amount of WIFOM present.

Do you think we should roleclaim?

HAHAHA what is this i dont even.

No. God no. I can't even believe anyone would suggest this.

What do you think are scumtells?

Again, you're basically getting town to warn the scum of what kind of scum-tells we'll be looking for. The fact that everyone is actually answering these questions seriously is rather worrying. Unless they aren't answering this question seriously, in order to lure scum into some highly-convoluted trap, in which case we have no way of knowing whether or not another player finds something genuinely scummy. Which means the answers are, in fact, irrelevent and cannot be used for much of anything by town, but supply the scum with enough info to effectively hide. Which begs the question; precisely what kind of information were you hoping to get from the town at that point, Zrk2? I can't see how town can gain anything from it, but perhaps you can enlighten me on the subject.

Rubbed me up completely the wrong way, although I will admit it was possible that Zrk2 had simply made multiple townie mistakes, in which case I would like to produce this, for the perusal of all:

Spoiler: Dakarian's Guide to Scumhunting! (click to show/hide)

A VERY rough sketch of how a scumhunt is done (to help those who aren't sure now).

Step 1: When you have no suspicions on anyone, pick someone at random (I MEAN random.. some use Random.org for this!), take a glance as their past posts, and talk to them, usually with a vote.  The goal is not to kill but to learn more about them.  The vote is a "Pressure Vote", simply used to make sure they don't ignore you.

Step 2: When someone feels 'off' to you: perhaps you disliked their answer, or maybe they scare you, or confuse you with their text.  Perhaps they look fine but your feelings or your gut says something is wrong. Perhaps you see them do one scumtell.  Don't ignore it: make them your target.  Attack them.  Tell them what bothers you about them.  Push them, harass them.  Tell them how scummy they are.  Ask them every question in the book.. and I mean EVERYTHING:

Litia: "You bother me.  Vote Dakarian!"

Dak: Meh.  Why?

Litia: "Because you bother me.  Why are you pushing me off as if it doesn't matter?"

Dak: "What? No, you just have nothing on me."

Litia: "You're voting for Vector.  why?"

Dak: "He looked scummy.."

Litia: "Vagueness is a scumtell!  "Scummy.. how is he scummy!"

Dak: "He just is.. you don't have a reason to go after me either."

Litia: "OMGUSing now Mr.Scum?  Being defensive?  You also didn't answer my question!"

Note, this is Step 2: Litia doesn't feel like she knows Dakarian is scum.. just had a 'feeling'.  She has no hard evidence, nothing real.  The questions are to add pressure.. make Dakarian crack and panic.  If you did it right, they WILL town or scum.  WHEN they do, you will be able to see more of their true self.  From there, decide if you can find them as scum for truth.  If you don't: pull out and go to your next suspect: if no one else is there, go back to Step 1.

If you do believe they are scum after that, Step 3:

Step 3: When you believe someone is scum, gather evidence.  Find every scum tell, every sign of their true motives.  Pull more from them.  DON'T LET GO!  Even if the town ignores you or even votes for you because of it, DO IT ANYWAY!  Push, push, PUSH, ***PUSH*** until you have solid proof of what they are.

If you can't find enough to prove them and run out of things to say, check one more time to see if you still feel he's scum, then pull back, look at others (Step 2) but be ready to go back to them at any time.  If your convinced and ready to kill them, Step 4

Step 4: Final step.  It's time to convince the town.  Show what you have.  Push the target so they show more scumminess.  Attack, but do it only to demonstrate to the town what you KNOW is true.  You aren't trying to argue with the mafia anymore.. you are trying to show the town why you are right and Mr.Mafia MUST be lynched.  If you are at this point, only 3 things can happen:

1.  The scum is lynched.
2. You are given so much information that you become CONVINCED that the target is town. (no less than CONVINCED.. doubt, maybe, 'perhaps' won't due)
3. You are dead.

That's how a basic scumhunt is done.  One last note on doubt:

Doubt is something that's ok to have but UGLY to show.  If you doubt or have second thoughts, DON'T DISPLAY IT.  If you think "He looks passive but I don't know..."  you SAY "You scum!  Stop being passive!!!"  If you think "He may have a good reason to attack guy really." say "Give me your reasons and stop being vague."

Doubt is something for yourself.  When you have doubt, go back and see if your original ideas still hold up.  If they do or if you find yourself saying "I'm not sure" then go back to the attack until you are sure.  This ain't the USA: we play by Guilty until Proven Innocent here.  Unless you can get yourself to believe they may be honest, keep the attack.

So doubt is ok to have if used right.. but the town does NOT need to hear it.  If you doubt, accuse anyway as if you know.  If you wonder, accuse as if you know it.  If you know the answer, ASK ANYWAY and let THEM answer.  Make them convince you they are town: don't do the job for them.

And that's scumhunting in a nutshell.  Everyone, try to figure out what Step you are on and work accordingly.  Note that you should be almost done Step 1 by the end of Day 1 (though some may be higher by then).  If you aren't, keep random voting and consider an Extension.

If you don't know WHAT you are.. you're in Step 1.  Get to random voting.

Last note: 'Not voting' should only be done when you are doing a quick look over everyone's past.  Otherwise, your vote and your attention should always be on SOMEONE, even if it is at random.

It's best for a lynch to be for a reason reason.. but it's better for someone to be lynched randomly than for no lynch to occur at all.

[Darvi]

Nice. Wouldn't work on me though since I'm so bad at communicating that I wouldn't even feel aggressed *heh*

[TolyK]

What.

We won't no lynch. And the day'll go on for a week.

Oh, ok.

Sorry, Urist McDwarf. Random.org.

[Darvi]

And so the random number god has spoken!

[Ottofar]

What.

We won't no lynch. And the day'll go on for a week.

Oh, ok.

Sorry, Urist McDwarf. Random.org.

You should probably ask a question.
Have you read Dak's bible. (In Spoilers in Azure's Post and OP)

[TolyK]

I have. I'm just really confused.

What.
We won't no lynch. And the day'll go on for a week.

this guy told me that we won't no lynch.
so I basically had made something that doesn't count.
that was my move, the previous one didn't count.

*OR*

If we are no lynching then I choose that.

Someone please help me my head hurts. OP would be really helpful.

[Ottofar]

You might also notice that I was 'this guy'.

You should either provide reasoning: Like this(okay, I do it poorly):

Everyone:
Do you think we should roleclaim?

Here, pay attention to:
 a)Questioning everyone, doesn't really help. Picking targets makes things easier.
and b)Rolefishing. This benefits the scum, as they get to know who to roleblock, and/or who to kill. It doesn't benefit town on day 1 at all.

I asked because it is occasionally a useful option. I suggested it so we can decide whether or not we want to, and the move on, instead of debating it later, when we have more info to scumhunt with.

Why are you voting so early? You have no information. I know Day 1 lynches rarely prove useful, but shouldn't you at least wait until you have some info before voting?

a) Covering up for the slip
b) "Don't vote me!"

I proposed a roleclaim so we could debate it now and get it out of the way, instead of later in the game when we would be more busy with the extra information we have.

Ottofar I thought you were experienced enough not to play BM. Do you think it is possible that you will unbalance the game?

Everyone Explain what strategy you would use as a scum. Who would you try and lynch first? How would you avoid suspicion (Don't say 'Scumhunting' I want details)? How would you try and help a partner in danger?

a) Covering up,
b) I was attacking him, then he asks, if I'm experienced enough to unbalance
and c) Everyone again.

Zrk2 Why are you asking so many questions to so many people -- why not one or two to one or two people?

Vadia Asking questions is a scumtell? What?

Who are the scumpicks of everyone, if any?

a) Pure OMGUS vote.

b) Everyone. Also note that he doesn't state his own.

[snip, even if it's not much]

I voted for him because he jumped on me for asking questions, that is the opposite of a scumtell.

I would say Vadia, for the above reason.

Defends OMGUS, claims it wasn't one.

Ottofar You have been rather aggressive so far. Why have you engaged in RVSing so hard, as it almost never achieves anything?

At this point, I had not really attacked anyone else.

Everyone: Please list your top two scumpicks, and give reasons.

I would say Vadia for taking my question asking as a scumtell, and for trying to mobilize a lynch campaign against people for not posting right away, this is BM, it will take a while to get going. I have no other real scumpick yet.

Everyone. This time he tells his pick though.Or ask some questions. Like: Urist McDwarf, Have you ever played mafia before.
Also, why are you lurking?

[Ottofar]

Oh, and I'm voting for him, yeah.

[TolyK]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

You might also notice that I was 'this guy'.
whoops. my computer hadn't loaded avatars yet and I missed it...
You should either provide reasoning: Like this(okay, I do it poorly):

Everyone:
Do you think we should roleclaim?

Here, pay attention to:
 a)Questioning everyone, doesn't really help. Picking targets makes things easier.
and b)Rolefishing. This benefits the scum, as they get to know who to roleblock, and/or who to kill. It doesn't benefit town on day 1 at all.

I asked because it is occasionally a useful option. I suggested it so we can decide whether or not we want to, and the move on, instead of debating it later, when we have more info to scumhunt with.

Why are you voting so early? You have no information. I know Day 1 lynches rarely prove useful, but shouldn't you at least wait until you have some info before voting?

a) Covering up for the slip
b) "Don't vote me!"

I proposed a roleclaim so we could debate it now and get it out of the way, instead of later in the game when we would be more busy with the extra information we have.

Ottofar I thought you were experienced enough not to play BM. Do you think it is possible that you will unbalance the game?

Everyone Explain what strategy you would use as a scum. Who would you try and lynch first? How would you avoid suspicion (Don't say 'Scumhunting' I want details)? How would you try and help a partner in danger?

a) Covering up,
b) I was attacking him, then he asks, if I'm experienced enough to unbalance
and c) Everyone again.

Zrk2 Why are you asking so many questions to so many people -- why not one or two to one or two people?

Vadia Asking questions is a scumtell? What?

Who are the scumpicks of everyone, if any?

a) Pure OMGUS vote.

b) Everyone. Also note that he doesn't state his own.

[snip, even if it's not much]

I voted for him because he jumped on me for asking questions, that is the opposite of a scumtell.

I would say Vadia, for the above reason.

Defends OMGUS, claims it wasn't one.

Ottofar You have been rather aggressive so far. Why have you engaged in RVSing so hard, as it almost never achieves anything?

At this point, I had not really attacked anyone else.

Everyone: Please list your top two scumpicks, and give reasons.

I would say Vadia for taking my question asking as a scumtell, and for trying to mobilize a lynch campaign against people for not posting right away, this is BM, it will take a while to get going. I have no other real scumpick yet.

Everyone. This time he tells his pick though.Or ask some questions. Like: Urist McDwarf, Have you ever played mafia before.
Also, why are you lurking?

in bold above 
well as I said I haven't got enough info to figure out folks. so it's random.
I know I shouldn't have said that, but you can't edit here so WHOOPSIE me.

[Argembarger]

I have. I'm just really confused.

What.
We won't no lynch. And the day'll go on for a week.

this guy told me that we won't no lynch.
so I basically had made something that doesn't count.
that was my move, the previous one didn't count.

*OR*

If we are no lynching then I choose that.

Someone please help me my head hurts. OP would be really helpful.

You can and may vote for a no-lynch. That is indeed an option you have at your disposal.

What Ottofar is saying is
A) you shouldn't do it,
and/or
B) it won't happen because nobody else is going to vote for no-lynch with you

[TolyK]

OK then
I vote for no-lynch. but zrk2 is suspicious. too vague.
tell us exactly the who and the what.