Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

Definitely.

A few, at least.

I don't care.

Not certain.

Definitely not.

Other.

View poll. / Abstain.

[G-Flex]

On the regular topic, while I don't like the idea of every retailer and/or producer being forced to give you a full refund if you didn't enjoy the game after opening the box, slamming it in your CD drive and playing around for five hours, it's a gracious thing to see done.

Worse, with online distribution, DLC, and so forth, resale is becoming a thing of the past. I'm not sure how easy or possible it is to transfer ownership of such games/content, but you can be damn sure the companies don't want it to be.

[Tilla]

Until you can convince the mainstream it will never happen. And the mainstream don't really talk about it all on forums :/

[Vattic]

It's not a problem for me right now but it always used to annoy me that you could buy a PC game and meet the minimum requirements yet be unable to play it even with the lowest settings. I'd argue that you should be able to get a full refund here as it's not what was advertised.

Expensive watches were mentioned. If you bought an expensive watch and after a few days you realised it wasn't keeping time you'd be able to return it as a faulty product no? If I buy a game and due to bugs and crashes it turns out to be mostly unplayable is it not too a faulty product just like the watch?

[Virex]

It's not a problem for me right now but it always used to annoy me that you could buy a PC game and meet the minimum requirements yet be unable to play it even with the lowest settings. I'd argue that you should be able to get a full refund here as it's not what was advertised.

As far as I remember, it is that way in the Netherlands, store owners have to allow you to return the game within 24 hours (they can give you store credits instead of money though). At least it was that way several years ago (haven't bought any physical disks the past few years).


One thing I would like to see, though it should probably not be a law, is that buying a game is made more like buying a license, so that losing the disk doesn't mean losing access to the program. It's already that way with many MMO and on-line only games, which you can download anywhere but only run if you enter your licensing info. Of course, this would also necessitate some form of verification that verifies this information on-line, but if you're downloading it anyway you can probably afford the few extra seconds to log into your account. (I feel a load of DRM hate incoming)

[Akura]

Don't watches usually come with a warranty, usually 30- or 90-day warranties?

Now that I think about it, don't games usually come with one?

Limited Warranty
Bethesda Softwerks LLC, a ZeniMax Media company ("Bethesda Softwerks") warrants you, the original purchaser of this disc and the game software encoded thereon ("Game"), that under normal use, the Game will persorm substantially as described in the accompanying manual for a period of 90 days from the date of purchase ("Warranty Period"). This Limited Warranty: (a) does not apply if the Game is used for a business or commercial purpose; and (b) is void if failure of the Game has resulted from accident, abuse, virus, or misapplication.

The only thing I can see that isn't clear would be a very liberal use of the term "misapplication", but I figure you ought to be able to get a refund if the game doesn't work even when your computer meets the minimum requirements.

I know that when I bought Left4Dead, I couldn't install it(turns out it was because I didn't have Steam, and at the time I didn't have internet), but I was able to return it for a refund at GameStop the same day.

As for gamers having rights as consumers, since they are consumers(they do buy the games), they should have consumer rights.

[Sensei]

I think so, but I can't think of a good way to do it that doesn't screw the people who sell games. Suppose you got a 24 hour return period, some gamers would blast through a 10 hour game that's otherwise decent and return it. And honest people would STILL complain it's not enough time to return something.

It'd be like returning food because you didn't think it tasted as good as you want. Granted, some food labels claim you can do that (100% satisfaction guaranteed or your money back!) but there must be a lot of hoops to jump through because I've never heard of anyone actually pulling it off.

[Cthulhu]

I believe the question was in the vein of "Should gamers have consumer rights additional to the ones normally afforded" and I think the answer is no.  Of course gamers have rights as consumers, but they don't deserve any extra.  It's like G-Flex (Or Earthquake Damage, one of the two) said earlier, gamers tend to be horrible consumers.  They bitch and moan and moan and bitch but everyone knows they're going to be the first ones to buy the game they're complaining about, or they'll just pirate it.  I'm sure we've all seen the screenshot of the Boycott Modern Warfare 2 Steamgroup on release date.  Like 70% of them were playing Modern Warfare 2 and the rest were talking about how they couldn't wait to play it.

You act like a sap and you get treated like a sap.  Gamers don't deserve special treatment because they allow themselves to be screwed over.

[Gantolandon]

I think so, but I can't think of a good way to do it that doesn't screw the people who sell games. Suppose you got a 24 hour return period, some gamers would blast through a 10 hour game that's otherwise decent and return it. And honest people would STILL complain it's not enough time to return something.

A game that could be blasted through in ten hours by a player who haven't played it before? Yeah, that would certainly be a pity if it was returned. Hear that hum? This is the sound of my tears overflowing the dam.

I believe the question was in the vein of "Should gamers have consumer rights additional to the ones normally afforded" and I think the answer is no.  Of course gamers have rights as consumers, but they don't deserve any extra.  It's like G-Flex (Or Earthquake Damage, one of the two) said earlier, gamers tend to be horrible consumers.  They bitch and moan and moan and bitch but everyone knows they're going to be the first ones to buy the game they're complaining about, or they'll just pirate it.  I'm sure we've all seen the screenshot of the Boycott Modern Warfare 2 Steamgroup on release date.  Like 70% of them were playing Modern Warfare 2 and the rest were talking about how they couldn't wait to play it.

You act like a sap and you get treated like a sap.  Gamers don't deserve special treatment because they allow themselves to be screwed over.

I really hate with a passion when somebody blames the victim of a fraud instead of a culprit. Seriously, many practices of the game publishers and developers are simply outrageous. I don't think that the gamers should have special rights. I just believe that someone who sells a broken product and trying to hide its vital flaws should be punished. It doesn't matter what he sells - games, vacuum cleaners or clothes.

[Virex]

I think so, but I can't think of a good way to do it that doesn't screw the people who sell games. Suppose you got a 24 hour return period, some gamers would blast through a 10 hour game that's otherwise decent and return it. And honest people would STILL complain it's not enough time to return something.

As said, there's a 24 hour return period in the Netherlands (which I have used several times when something wouldn't run on my rig), and people here still buy games.

[Neonivek]

I said definately yes but for reasons the topic creator didn't highlight on.

In many ways gamers have LESS rights then consumers because digital property has odd laws governing it.

Spyware on disc? Termination programming? Programs specifically created to harm others? ALL LEGAL

[Biag]

If all game prices were halved, I would care about this issue. But I don't, because I can't afford to drop $60 on a game EVER, and $30 is an agonizing decision.

I do wish Steam would implement some kind of return policy, though. It'd be possible, if not easy, and it would be /extremely/ convenient for consumers... in particular, I'm thinking of the time I spent $30 on Red Faction and then found out that it didn't work, despite my meeting the recommended requirements.

Also, all games should have easily-available, well-done demos. That would fix most of the problems.

[Virex]

I said definately yes but for reasons the topic creator didn't highlight on.

In many ways gamers have LESS rights then consumers because digital property has odd laws governing it.

Spyware on disc? Termination programming? Programs specifically created to harm others? ALL LEGAL

In that respect, games are again more like services. They provide you with the right to use a certain piece of code on certain conditions and revoke the license if you break certain rules (cheating, copying, hacking et cetera). I could see games being treated as a license altogether, especially with services like Steam that tie a game to your account.

[Neonivek]

(cheating, copying, hacking et cetera

Ohh I am sorry... Did you think I was speaking of anti-piracy?

Nope, they make the rules and they have terminated for things like "You bought something that wasn't ours. Terminate!"

all legally of course because according to companies you don't own squat. Your being "allowed" to play.

License isn't even accurate, they call it license, but read the EULA... They can take it back without refund on a whim. (sometimes even WITH your computer)

Edit Note: The tone of this wasn't to insult anyone but to show my frustration of the crud videogames, software, and hardware can get away with.

[Sensei]

Yeah, EULA's can be pretty insidious. Remember when Blizzard tried to sue Starcraft 2 cheaters/modders?

That kind of bullshit, we shouldn't have to be subjected to.

[Neonivek]

Yeah, EULA's can be pretty insidious. Remember when Blizzard tried to sue Starcraft 2 cheaters/modders?

That kind of bullshit, we shouldn't have to be subjected to.

Yeah the no modding aspects shouldn't be part of the EULA...

I can understand if they are modding it to pirate it or cheat with certain games... but otherwise...