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[The Merchant Of Menace]

Meh. In my opinion you shouldn't compromise for anyone, if somebody only wants anything to do with you because of your appearance, they really aren't worth it.

Of course, in the case of being self destructive, then yeah, it's okay to change, I wouldn't be here talking if that wasn't the case

[Vector]

Vector, you rant at the slightest provocation : (.

Jumping at shadows.

What's this in response to?  The OP, or my comment to GTM?

In the latter case, I was indeed a bit worried about how I was coming off, and am sorry for any slights.  In the former, this has been a fairly important problem in my life--when to compromise, and when not to, and I was wondering if anyone else had similar experiences or wisdom they could share.  It's not just about what other people say, but about one's position in society, one's goals in life, the process of becoming an adult.

And yeah, I'm wondering what anyone who has conformed more found out.  Was it worth it?  Did it make them happy?  That's what I want to know, regardless of any personal situations.  I'd like to hear about the other side, or from people who have continued this path and learned something about it.

As I keep on saying (perhaps unsuccessfully), I don't want this dialogue to be solely about me and my war on fashion.  That may be the personal context, but my hope would be that our conversation would be more general.

Thanks for listening ^_^;;

[Phmcw]

I've already put a lot of thought in that matter, mostly because my girlfriend have the exact same problem.
We all know you're a mathematician, she is finishing her last year of master in physics, and you're both have pretty much the same problem : you dress yourself as you like (prettily in her case, and your description sound cute too), yet poeple doesn't like that and you identify the way you dress and make up as the problem.

The actual problem is : you're both girl with analytics mindset, and you've spent the last few year carefully dissecting thought process. Yet worse, you did it mathematically, which mean perfectly rationally, explaining every step of your reasoning. 

Most of the reaction of your entourage doesn't make sense anymore, save for a few poeple (usually quite logic and that you know well).

When you're a man, especially in the scientific field, that doesn't matter too much : you're a nerd, and poeple can understand that.

When you're a girl, you MUST LOOK GOOD.

There is a lot of reason for that, none of them making sense by themselves, all perfectly explainable through sociology/history.

Fortunately, there is a few workaround : when you don't plan to get any advantage, dress as you like, it doesn't matter.
In a professional environment, there are rules for dressing, especially when there is something to be gained (work interview...).
Keeping a few neutral outfit in one's wardrobe can help. Usually selected with the help of friend/family (I do it myself).

But don't worry too much : first it only really mater with poeple you don't know well or who are idiots, secondly it IS pretty. Just not trendy.
It won't matter to your boyfriends/ potential boyfriends. Any misconceptions on your behalf will be corrected once they get to know you.
Anyway, getting along with poeple isn't your main asset, and impressing them on first sight isn't all that important when you're actually a good mathematician, let these doctorates and the idea you've had for the project you aimed to do their jobs, instead of trying to dress trendily for a job interview (I'm not sure how it would impress the old professor you're likely to face anyway).

Last thing, even if it's incredibly annoying, the poeple who give you these advices actually thing they do for the best.

[The Merchant Of Menace]

Yeah. I usally wear black jeans, shirt and coat, my girlfriend dresses radically differently and the way I dress doesn't bother her at all. Although, I dress this way to discourage people from approaching me, So my advice may not be best X3

[Miggy]

You should obviously always do what makes best sense and what makes you happy.

The reason you ever compromise is because you accept the opposing view while also giving your own view credit. Therefore the best solution is a compromise, a medium between the two. If you don't accept the opposing view, then you shouldn't make a compromise. And likely, if you don't understand the opposing view, you wouldn't be able to make a proper compromise to begin with! For instance, your view about conforming to society's standards in dress code seems to be overly exaggerated (probably just to make the point come across), and I don't think anyone would actually want you to become an anorexic bimbo simply because that's what they say in LA. If you're actually putting care and thought into your outfit and appearance in the first place, then the argument becomes purely subjective.

Myself I have done some compromise, I think I could say. I've always been a pretty nerdy geek, spending a lot of time in front of the PC playing video games. I've always sort of known that I couldn't actually live like that and I'd have to conform with the more normal standards of not playing video games all the time. I did do this just last summer where I moved out for university and such. I've stayed pretty much clean off video games and I do feel a lot better for it. I fear a bit that I've replaced the constant playing of video games with constant playing of keyboard/piano though, but if I were to choose between the two I'd definitely still go with piano. So I have conformed in some way, but not quite all the ways yet. Have I become happier for it? Definitely, much. However I think that is due to a pressing guilt I always felt when playing video games, sort of knowing I shouldn't, that is now gone. If I didn't feel that guilt, I doubt I would be much happier.

[Vector]

Actually, the statements have generally been something like:

"I want to see you, on the steps of the math library, wearing a halter top with a short skirt and a bob, with strappy heels and a Gucchi handbag and some nice blush--and an actual tan for once, Jesus--texting...

And then, because we both know you, you walk in, pull out some textbooks, and go back to the usual Vector-Deathglare for the next ten hours."

I think that one was mostly a joke.

There's been a lot of genuine encouragement to get contacts, cut my hair, and wear more revealing clothing, though.  Hence the topic... the things people suggest nowadays are reasonable and not completely crazy, even if they're not quite to my taste.  I don't want to do them, but they aren't the same sort of personality-hammering that people used to suggest.  So, at this point, I guess it's more a question of appeasing one's personal sensibilities (as I'm a college student, who still has a great deal of flexibility) versus blending in with the common conceptions of beauty.

I think that right now, I'm feel that the difference is subtle enough that my appearance probably isn't actively inhibiting anything I particularly care about, while it may be helping some because I fit in with the group I prefer (nerdy math students).  On the other hand, one of them only recently said I was the most bizarrely-dressed person on campus.  Hope he was joking.


And I certainly understand your point about video games, Miggy.  I've pretty much stopped playing them myself, as well as not indulging in a lot of other habits anymore.  Still some things I need to work on, though they'll be a lot easier to change once school starts up again.


I appreciate everyone's comments thus far.  I haven't been replying because I've been busy thinking about them.  Sorry about that... but I'll do what I can.

[Elkylord]

Another area where compromise is absolutely necessary is social interaction. I'm currently in my freshman year at university and have found that, in order to make some real friends and not just have some guys you hang out with when you're bored, you have to get over the stage where it's unenjoyable to talk to them.
I'm very quick in calling out on other people's flaws and certainly don't want to hurt anyone, but when you first meet someone and criticise them too much, you tend to be dismissed and seen as somewhat harsh. When the relationship has grown a bit, it's much more acceptable to do that.

So what I'm currently trying to do is not to step on too many toes, but still keep my identity and not take too much crap. In the long term, I hope this will work out I'll get the opportunity to behave as I would normally; I certainly don't want to hide what I am forever. The whole thing is still in progress though and all I can report so far ist that it is a lot of work to hold yourself back when someone says something I don't agree with.
So in my opinion compromise is about giving up something in the short term to gain something, be it respect or friendship, in the long term. Applying that to your problem leads me to the conclusion that you should try to find concrete benefits you could have from dressing up more "acceptable" and weigh them against the amount of comfort you lose by doing it. Still, I think it should be at most a temporary change to get others to gradually accept your real self or at least what you like to wear. If you don't see any chance to revert your style over time, don't change.

[Bouchart]

Another area where compromise is absolutely necessary is social interaction. I'm currently in my freshman year at university and have found that, in order to make some real friends and not just have some guys you hang out with when you're bored, you have to get over the stage where it's unenjoyable to talk to them.

I always had trouble getting along with my peers back when I was in college.

And I'm glad I did!  Those guys were short-sighted morons.  Vector, do yourself a favor and just do whatever you are most comfortable doing.

[Muz]

If you don't feel like doing it, don't. Just do what makes you happy. Sometimes making people shut up makes you happier. Sometimes making people drool over you makes you happier (or it could make you unhappy, which is the issue). Sometimes just sticking with your self-conduct and beliefs make you happier.

It's a matter of balance. Since none of us are you, it's not really something we're qualified to comment on.

However, I do find that looking more attractive pays off. Double as much for a girl. You probably secretly want to just sell out, hoping someone might pressure you enough to do something silly. But hell, just go for it. Get contacts, borrow a friend's top and short skirt, try it out. See if you enjoy it. If you don't like it, at least you can say that "I've done that before. It just isn't my thing."

[Vector]

However, I do find that looking more attractive pays off. Double as much for a girl. You probably secretly want to just sell out, hoping someone might pressure you enough to do something silly. But hell, just go for it. Get contacts, borrow a friend's top and short skirt, try it out. See if you enjoy it. If you don't like it, at least you can say that "I've done that before. It just isn't my thing."

Actually, this is false.  I frankly don't feel I have the body type to pull off typical "stylish fashion" with the skinny jeans and low-cut tops.  Someone else's top would just reveal a whole lot of... nothing to reveal.  Also, I've been unable to get contacts due to blepheritis issues, so for now I'm just trying to get a pair of cuter glasses.

(Seriously, one of my main arguments for button-down blouses is that they at least look good on someone with no chest.  I've been mistaken for a man before when I was wearing short shorts and a tank top, and for a 40-year-old.  There's no question about my gender when I wear dressish things)

In any case, I do wear short skirts, and I don't feel unattractive.  The difference isn't between a total nerdish closeted look and a "ooh, she does clean up well!" look.  It's about conventional American attractive mores versus something that's attractive, but in a bookish way.


Hell, I don't want to just argue, so: if you guys have advice on cleaning up for someone who is never going to look good in the usual "here are my tits and here is my ass" way, I'm interested.  I guess a lot of my resistance here is that I have no clue as to what I'd wear.  I do own tank tops, and I've worn them.  I own short skirts.  But it all looks kind of dumb on someone with this little in the way of upper curvaceous bits.

It's so frustrating, guys ;_;  People keep telling me to change my style to things that show off assets I don't actually possess.  I'm not talking about you folks specifically--you've been very nice--but at this point I really don't know what I'm supposed to be wearing.  Usually, I put on these nice blouses with vertical stripes (and a lot of buttons, because I like them), maybe a creamy thing with a brown corduroy vest and some long wool pants, so that I'm going for the "hey, I'm thin " vibe... but I have no idea what else I could do.

I understand the absurdity of asking for fashion tips here, but I figure I might as well go for it.

[Bouchart]

Maybe I shouldn't be this direct and it's probably poorly worded.  If you don't want to answer that's fine.

But are you asking this because you are having trouble dating or meeting men, and don't know what to do?

[Vector]

No, I have absolutely no problems with that.  I've had more than enough offers when I actively wasn't looking for any.

I'm asking people who keep giving me fashion advice to give me fashion advice that fits my body type, rather than fashion advice that is going to make me look stupid no matter what I do.

[Bouchart]

Then you are doing fine.  Do what you like.  Don't overthink this.

[The Merchant Of Menace]

Black jeans of some sort. A black shirt and a black light jacket.

[Vector]

Black jeans of some sort. A black shirt and a black light jacket.

... Dress like you... ?

My version of this is a black button-down shirt with long sleeves, with a black over-shirt over it... sort of a short-sleeved blouse with a few buttons, wide collar, and lace on all the hems.  Then a black skirt with a lace underskirt, or the one I have with bright embroidered flowers on it.

Add a pair of black socks (perhaps with rabbits or cranes, because almost all of my socks are dorky) and black leather mid-calf boots, and you're done =/

I suspect my style is slightly more flamboyant than yours.


Bah!

I suppose we're generally in agreement, then.  It's more about character than clothing, when it comes to getting along with people, yes?  There are limits, but at a certain point it really doesn't matter what one wears.