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[Vector]

As those of you who are familiar with me may know, I'm not very good at compromising when it comes to my self-conduct and beliefs.

I suppose the reason why I'm starting this thread is that I'm wondering about other people's feelings on compromising/selling out, whether it's in terms of appearance or anything else.  So, I suppose I want to know: how do you feel about it, and where do you think the line should be drawn?  Do you feel toeing the line for mainstream behavior is worth it?


As for the specific reason for my query:

Folks have been telling me that I'd probably get farther in life if I tried to be attractive, rather than simply dressing to please myself.  I don't think it should be necessary to flash skin or cut my (stupidly curly) hair to succeed.

And before anyone asks, I'm mostly wearing button-down blouses, shined leather boots, and skirts (or black pants) nowadays, maybe with a light sweater or vest.  It's old-fashioned and maybe a little bit austere, but I wouldn't say it's weird... with my build, there's no point in wearing tank tops, anyway.  And yes, I make sure everything matches, is clean without being weird about it, blah blah.  I'm even getting new glasses so I don't have the weird old coke-bottle ones.  I'm trying, guys!

My personal feeling on this matter is that persistent earnestness, honesty, cleverness, and compassion should override whatever might be gained with a trendy haircut and cute shoes.  I think that I'm well-liked enough.  I have friends and three housing options for next year lined up, and my roommates are trying to set me up on dates.  My professors seem to love me and find me extremely memorable; people talk to me because I look odd but approachable; and nowadays, everyone seems to come to me first when they're missing some sort of information.  I even get along with all my relatives, and folks who I used to be completely unable to stand.

Those all seem like indicators of social success, despite looking like I crawled out of some sort of Victoriania catalog.

But, if you have any advice or interesting stories on this matter, I would love to hear about it.


Also, let's not get all wanky and-or flamey on here.  Yeah, I'm a girl on the internet.  I'm asking for advice about personal appearance, and what I'm looking for is honest opinions, not boot-licking.  You've been warned.

[Mephansteras]

Sounds like things are going fine. I wouldn't change anything until you hit a point where you think dressing for yourself is actually hurting your chances of getting something you want.

[Bouchart]

As those of you who are familiar with me may know, I'm not very good at compromising when it comes to my self-conduct and beliefs.

I suppose the reason why I'm starting this thread is that I'm wondering about other people's feelings on compromising/selling out, whether it's in terms of appearance or anything else.  So, I suppose I want to know: how do you feel about it, and where do you think the line should be drawn?  Do you feel toeing the line for mainstream behavior is worth it?

Don't bother.  You'd feel miserable to do that and you knew it before you even asked.

Look, people are known for herd behavior, blindly following trends and of course the "conventional wisdom" but often times the contrarian path works better.  Besides, it's easy to see when a person is acting a certain way just to "fit in" and they rarely fit in when they do.

It's a sign of maturity.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Compromise is a situational action, but is not worth it more often than it is. In your specific case, you aren't being harmed by not conforming to societal standards, so there is no problem. Just keep in mind that there is a differance between not conforming and non-conformity. Non-conformity would be when an individual acts contrary to society just to do so, generally out of some perceived grevince with society. This allows their actions and habits to be controled just as much as those who consciously conform do, because it must be the opposite of what the conformed are doing. What I'm saying is: Just do what you want (within reason) without considering the judgements of others on it, be they conformist or non-conformist.

Do keep in mind that, as a diplomatic and manipulative strategy, the appearance of conformation/non-conformation will get you very far with certain people. Just don't let it become genuine, and don't overdo it (the latter can lead to the former more easily than you might think).

Now, you mentioned apperance specifically as the issue you are considering compromising to conformists on. I would not advise this. While such a strategy might help with the forging of plationic and romantic relationships (the former of which you claim to have no problem with anyway), the type of people it attracts are most likely not worth your time.

[Christes]

Oh God Vector, I feel exactly the same way at times myself. My personal reaction is to say screw the mainstream if that's not what you are.  As far as my own life is concerned, I fully admit that I have not found happiness, but I'm not going to find it if I'm not being honest with myself!  I don't mean to pry, but I'm curious who these "folks" are.  I'm also curious what "get ahead in life" means.  You seem to be doing fine in your life so far.

I will also add that if you do decide to conform - even a little bit - don't do it just because someone told you to!  Sure, it'll make your social life with them a little easier, but it will make a lot of other things harder for you.  In all honesty, I think you already know what you want to do.

This does raise an interesting question, though.  It seems like the feedback so far for Vector has been along these lines of my post above, and this is likely because she is somewhat well-known and seems to be doing well enough.  However, at what point should someone be advised to actually conform a little?  There is the popular catchphrase "Be Yourself" that gets thrown around a lot in this sort of situation, but should you really be yourself if you are a terrible or self-destructive person?  (Not to imply Vector is such a person - I'm merely curious where the line is.)

[Bouchart]

RE: "Be Yourself"

I was thinking about that the other day.  As a socially awkward person and something of an outcast, I always resented that advice, because I didn't fit in if I was just myself.  But pretending to be someone else is worse, so I just have to roll with it.

[GTM]

If you've ever watched Highlander or any decent vampire movie, you'll note that immortal beings dress in such a way to blend in with the times.  There's nothing wrong about dressing to fit in as long as you 1) don't waste TOO much money doing it, and 2) don't let it define you.  There's no shame in wearing good clothes for your era - same goes for hair/makeup/etc.  It's a game, have fun with it.

[Vector]

Thanks for the advice, everyone.  Individual replies whenever I wake up tomorrow.


A quick note to GTM, though:

My question is not about "what do vampires do" or "is it shameful to fit in."  I'm asking about where people think the line is drawn for compromises of this nature.  I know who I am and what I like, and I'm dressing like that--especially because the "good clothes of our era" look horrid on me, and I wear my hair in a bun most of the time to hide how much it thinned out from malnutrition.  I also don't happen to find it much of a game unless I get to wear what I enjoy.  "Smoldering" is not an adjective I want applied to me unless I am actively on fire.

If your response is "I think you should do whatever it takes to fit in, so long as you don't spend too much money or let it define you," I'd like to hear your reasoning for that.

[Bouchart]

Taste in clothes is so subjective and so subject to change that there's no pleasing everybody.  Wear what is work appropriate at work and elsewhere wear what you are comfortable with.

[GTM]

I'm not the best person to be giving advice here, because I'm strongly against nerd/geek culture.  I see it as a rotten form of conformity and something that encourages smart people to otherwise blow off aesthetics.

There's no universal advice to give about appearances.  In the world I live in, appearance totally matters, and a girl (or a guy) can achieve more trust and leadership by backing up their existing smarts and skills with cool hair and stylish clothes.  But I'm very much in middle urban america - I bet super smart MIT dorks out in the Pacific burbs have different customs, for example.

Perhaps the one thing that can be called universal is this:  your appearance is the first thing people will notice in real life.  It's a form of communication that frames how people will interact with you.  It sounds like you've already put thought into it and it's working for you, but as your circumstances change, update your exterior accordingly.

[Vector]

Ah-ha, okay.  Thank you very much for the food for thought =)

Just to be clear, I'm not talking about the usual geek snarky T-shirt/shorts combo.  I don't fit in with the average geek crowd, either... because I do believe in aesthetics, just not the "wear tight clothes, diet yourself to death, destroy your feet with strappy shoes, and bleach your hair, so then everyone will love you" ones.

So, we're talking about someone on the slim side of average with good hygiene and a careful dress-sense, who does wear glasses but not scary ones, and who is fairly careful to maintain appearances.  I don't wear makeup because it's horrible for your skin and expensive, and I'm already on the pale/blushy/redder-lipped side.  Honestly can't think of anything I'd do with it.

Meh.  I don't want this to just be about me and my clothes, because really, this is more about the entire spectrum of personal choices, and clothing/makeup/other aesthetics just happened to be what made me think about it.  I might post an updated picture in a while, though.

[Virroken]

Do what makes you happy. Never look back.

If the success brought by changing yourself will make you happy, then change. If it won't, then don't.

[mainiac]

Looking good will help you at the margins but in order to get a good job, there are things that are far more important: education, passion for the field, etc.  The problem arises when there are two qualified applicants and they opt for the one with better social skills and a bunch of helicopter mothers say "Oh NOES, U NEEDZ TO LOOK PRITTIES!"  Look "professional" in accordance with what your profession is and try to remember to brush your teeth and wear deodorant.  Remember, the appearance that instills confidence varies a LOT from profession to profession.

If your family tells you otherwise, you should explain that your appearance is carefully cultivated and looks professional to someone who knows what they are looking for.  That's assuming that it does look professional.

[Solifuge]

I held "Take the road less traveled" as a sort of mantra growing up, and a lot of the habits I established were based on that. Over the last 5 years or so, I've been revisiting this, as taking that adage to the extreme has gotten in the way of my ability to fit in or interact with people, and left me as the odd one out more often than I'd care to count. As always, it's important to express yourself be comfortable with yourself and how you carry yourself, but that's as good as common sense. It's also important to not distance yourself too much from the people around you, even in mannerisms, behaviors, and appearances; in order to communicate and relate, we need to have some common ground with other people. That's true for many aspects of our lives as social creatures.

A friend of mine once told me "Act like you're the shit, because even if you aren't, people will believe you are. People won't second guess you, because they're too busy second guessing themselves." Whether it is with your style of dress, your choice of vocabulary, your interests, or whatever if may be, confidence that it's who you are or what you enjoy is key. If you don't feel that confidence, then you might consider adjusting things until you do. Push the line a bit toward something, and if you still feel comfortable, go for it. If not, you know where to stop.

The same friend also spent some time a few years back reinventing her clothing style, as she was preparing to enter the professional world. In her case, she looked to others, and cribbed elements of their style that she liked and was comfortable with, and made them her own. She was really fond of the traditional styles of Arabic and Indian women, so she incorporated modest, colorful patterned skirts, and nice solid-color blouses and such. She's also rather tomboyish, so she used headscarves as both a way to manage her hair, and a way to add a pretty, decorative element to her attire. All in all, it works well together, and she looks good in it, though what makes someone look and feel good doesn't apply to everyone else.

[eerr]

Vector, you rant at the slightest provocation : (.

Jumping at shadows.