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[Dwarf]

And once again, we can see how the rightist-conservative politicians in Switzerland downright lie to the people.
It's kind of infuriating.
Nobody ever talked of civilian firearms, only the assault rifles.

void sarcasm()
{
Yet, the SPP makes it look as if the evil leftists were once again out to destroy Switzerland and the Swiss culture and remove all guns from the well-trained and responsible militia forces. The removal of assault rifles from the national defender's home is a conspiracy to destroy the Swiss army.
}

That should help.

[Max White]

C syntax just dosn't work when doing the sarcasem thing. I mean the </SARCASEM> tag works because HTML and other similar languages that use that format all read rich text format.

Prolog syntax, on the otherhand, works perfectly well...

[Duuvian]

I'm for gun rights. I think people should be able to have a weapon. I also think, however, that at the first sign of irresponsibility or lack of maturity or respect in handling a weapon (brandishing it if you will) that it should be taken away. This leads to the inevitable argument that guns kill people. This is true also. I think a good route would be to have a stringent psychological qualification process for a concealed weapon permit. EDIT: By that I mean, for guns. A man should be able to carry a reasonable knife, after all, and I'd say it's relatively impossible to keep him from doing so if he chooses. Swords, not so much.

I think that for liberals to proceed, what needs to happen is that more focus is put on educating people about guns and how awesome and terrible they are. After all, things that can kill us are pretty interesting indeed, and will always be worth our attention. Proper handling, safety, and the idea that you should try very hard not to accidentally point a loaded gun at someone should be stressed in class alongside this fact: if you ever have to point a gun at a person on purpose then you've made a mistake that could have been remedied well before it got to that point, with immediate self defense being the only exceptions.

Also, there it must be said that a gun is also a tool for gathering food for some people. In less densely populated areas it is quite common to supplement one's diet with meat obtained through hunting and fishing. If gun rights are revoked, you will have to consider the choices these families would have to make if the law said their guns were outlawed . A single deer can provide quite a bit of meat after all, and that can be very useful in supplementing one's income for a whole season.

[G-Flex]

I'm for gun rights. I think people should be able to have a weapon. I also think, however, that at the first sign of irresponsibility or lack of maturity or respect in handling a weapon (brandishing it if you will) that it should be taken away. This leads to the inevitable argument that guns kill people. This is true also. I think a good route would be to have a stringent psychological qualification process for a concealed weapon permit.

Putting that much power about something that subjective into the hands of government officials and organizations cannot possibly work right, as there's bound to be both systemic and personal bias when it comes to determining who is "psychologically fit" or showing "lack of maturity", especially in different cultural contexts within the country. I mean, a test to determine if someone is fit to even stand trial, or knows about basic gun safety is one thing, or a criminal background check, but there's no good or objective way to tell if someone is "mature about guns". That kind of subjective rule flat-out does not work in a large and diverse population, especially one with significant minority cultural/racial groups and that sort of thing.

[Duuvian]

Another option would be a public appeal, where you have to present evidence to the public that you are worthy of being allowed to carry a concealed weapon. What that would be, would be an interesting discussion.

EDIT; A 'Sir Knight of the Public; Gunslinger' type of deal

[G-Flex]

That has the exact same problems, yet is even worse, because you have to prove to some arbitrary body that you're "worthy" of carrying a gun. In other words, instead of making a case that someone shouldn't carry one, you put the burden of proof on them that they should, which is even harder on them. It suffers from the exact same problems, otherwise, that I mentioned above.

[Duuvian]

Do you think that it would work if it was a system based off a volunteer jury system with the volunteers chosen in the local area drawn out of a hat?

EDIT: By that, I mean that people in a local area volunteer to be in a pool of citizens eligible to sit on these 'juries'. For concealed permits is what I am referring to. Absolutely no requirements on being in the pool other than being over 21 years of age, perhaps, and being a local resident for a year or more with intent to stay for at least a year. I'd suggest limiting it to people 18+ and make people under 21 be under especially tough scrutiny if they wish to apply for a permit.

[Phmcw]

So, swiss guy, let's no dance around the issue. You could follow the French/English example, or the American example. Here are the results : America murder per 100000 :  7,6, France : 1.49, England : 1.28. No matter how those figures are taken, even if the one in France and England are grossly underestimated, America still have much more murder than Europe. (American is hilariously in the world Average, while being one of the richest country.)

So, Choose wisely, if you like sleeping above the ground, and not six feet under.

Next I shamelessly quote my own posts.

A that you can add : social inequalities, lack of social care, stressful work condition (japan have them too, but they have another way to vent it out : suicide), and generally having the stupid idea that defending you home with a gun is the thing to do.   

[ed boy]

So, swiss guy, let's no dance around the issue. You could follow the French/English example, or the American example. Here are the results : America murder per 100000 :  7,6, France : 1.49, England : 1.28. No matter how those figures are taken, even if the one in France and England are grossly underestimated, America still have much more murder than Europe. (American is hilariously in the world Average, while being one of the richest country.)

Correlation does not mean causation.

[Phmcw]

Correlation does not mean causation.

Yeah, right. Totaly relevant in this case : when about everything else is similar, correlation is nearly similar to strongly imply causation.
Similar density of population, similar wealth.
And I mentioned the other factors, but given that homicide rate are more than three times higher there is several causes.
IE: irresponsible gun policy,

social inequalities, lack of social care, stressful work condition (japan have them too, but they have another way to vent it out : suicide), and generally having the stupid idea that defending you home with a gun is the thing to do.   

[Earthquake Damage]

Do you think that it would work if it was a system based off a volunteer jury system with the volunteers chosen in the local area drawn out of a hat?

EDIT: By that, I mean that people in a local area volunteer to be in a pool of citizens eligible to sit on these 'juries'. For concealed permits is what I am referring to. Absolutely no requirements on being in the pool other than being over 21 years of age, perhaps, and being a local resident for a year or more with intent to stay for at least a year. I'd suggest limiting it to people 18+ and make people under 21 be under especially tough scrutiny if they wish to apply for a permit.

Too much democracy can be a bad thing.

[chewie]

And once again, we can see how the rightist-conservative politicians in Switzerland downright lie to the people.

Right. Most stupid party ever.

Nobody ever talked of civilian firearms, only the assault rifles.

Wrong.
What we're actually voting about (=what will be written into our constitution in case of democratic approval.)
If we vote yes to not having our army guns at home, we also have to say yes to the following thing:

Besonders gefährliche Waffen, namentlich Seriefeuerwaffen und Vorderschaftrepetierflinten (Pump Action), dürfen nicht zu privaten Zwecken erworben und besessen werden.

What it says: Basically nobody is allowed to own an automatic firearm or a pump action. I guess I'm okay with this, seriously, nobody really needs a pump action.

But apart from this, another paragraph also says, that special permitments can be given (but you have to earn those, which I like, but: this leads to a shitload of bureaucratic work) to people who:

• need the gun for their job
• trade with guns
• use guns for sport
• hunt or
• collect guns

If that's the case you can own a regular gun.
But basically, you won't be allowed to own either a gun or ammunition.

[Phmcw]

But basically, you won't be allowed to own either a gun or ammunition.

Expept if you:     
    * need the gun for their job
    * trade with guns
    * use guns for sport
    * hunt or
    * collect guns
Expect different category of gun with different regulation. The most dangerous being the most restricted. I'm pretty sure owning a dual barrel hunting gun will stay easy.

[chewie]

Expect different category of gun with different regulation. The most dangerous being the most restricted. I'm pretty sure owning a dual barrel hunting gun will stay easy.

Yeah. I think it's gonna be like this:
"Hello Sir, do you own any firearms?"
"Yep I do, I'm hunting in my free time. Here's my license."
"Ok, thank you. I'd also like to have a look at your gun please, we need to register it."
*other guy gets his gun* "that's a $gun_name"
"Ok, so I'm noting down your name and address and I'm giving that thing its very own number, and that would be it. Thank you."

I'm sure they won't go crazy about those things.

[Strife26]

Land area of US: 9,826,630 sq km
Land area of England: 0,130,410 sq km


Shit, if the swiss want to prevent gun crime, maybe they should just sell some of their land to a foreign government!