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Author Topic: Gun rights discussion  (Read 18589 times)

Sir Finkus

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Re: Gun rights discussion
« Reply #360 on: January 17, 2011, 10:51:08 pm »

I'm sorry if I gave the impression that the gun would be my first line of defense, nothing could be further from the truth.  The gun is an absolute last resort.

Oh, what else would you do?
There is a stranger in your house, you do not know if they are armed, and your in your bed with a loaded fire arm next to you. What measures do you take to make sure you are safe, if fire at will is a last priorty?

My first action is to pull the covers over my head and wait untill they go away, then when I hear the door close I call the police, but of corse living in a City they have little chance of getting away with such quick responce time from the police, so in your situation, what is your protocal?


1)Call the police
2)Lights on, make my presence known, yell "the police are on their way".  Most burglars would probably run at that point.
3)Yell "I have a gun, if you come in my room I will shoot you"
4)If he enters and is armed, then I shoot, otherwise he gets another warning.
All of this depends on the situation of course, but I'd do my best to diffuse the situation before using force.

Max White

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Re: Gun rights discussion
« Reply #361 on: January 17, 2011, 10:55:47 pm »

How much time do you give between the man entering the room, and shooting him?
Do you make sure he is armed before you shoot?
Do you figure out who he is before you shoot?
Or is that just a basic reaction, as soon as you see movment in that door you fire?

Remembering that the longer you give him, the more likely he is to shoot you. The lights are on, your an open target, and if he wants you dead he dosn't need to know who you are, so he can shoot on sight. Do you take the same privliage?

Earthquake Damage

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Re: Gun rights discussion
« Reply #362 on: January 17, 2011, 11:02:07 pm »

Remembering that the longer you give him, the more likely he is to shoot you. The lights are on, your an open target, and if he wants you dead he dosn't need to know who you are, so he can shoot on sight. Do you take the same privliage?

On the plus side:  He has a fighting chance against hostile intruders.  Hiding under the covers offers none.

If the intruder is not intent on murdering, kidnapping, or otherwise harming anyone, I'd expect them to skedaddle once they're aware someone is awake and (supposedly -- could be lying) armed.
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Max White

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Re: Gun rights discussion
« Reply #363 on: January 17, 2011, 11:04:38 pm »

On the plus side:  He has a fighting chance against hostile intruders.  Hiding under the covers offers none.

If the intruder is not intent on murdering, kidnapping, or otherwise harming anyone, I'd expect them to skedaddle once they're aware someone is awake and (supposedly -- could be lying) armed.

Mugger comes up to you in a dark ally and demands your watch, phone and wallet. Your best of giving it to him, else he may very well stab you.
Theif breaks into your house at night and takes your stuff. Your best to let him get away before you call the crops, else he might come in armed.

Sir Finkus

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Re: Gun rights discussion
« Reply #364 on: January 17, 2011, 11:07:29 pm »

How much time do you give between the man entering the room, and shooting him?
Do you make sure he is armed before you shoot?
Do you figure out who he is before you shoot?
Or is that just a basic reaction, as soon as you see movment in that door you fire?

Remembering that the longer you give him, the more likely he is to shoot you. The lights are on, your an open target, and if he wants you dead he dosn't need to know who you are, so he can shoot on sight. Do you take the same privliage?
I told you, if he's armed I shoot, if not I give him a verbal warning and instructions to leave, if he doesn't and keeps advancing, I shoot.  Keep in mind this person has already broken into my house, ignored my previous warnings, refused to identify themselves or leave, and is now coming in my room.  He isn't there to deliver flowers.

The thing to understand is the gun is an OPTION, just because you have a gun doesn't mean you need to shoot the guy.

Max White

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Re: Gun rights discussion
« Reply #365 on: January 17, 2011, 11:10:27 pm »

I told you, if he's armed I shoot, if not I give him a verbal warning and instructions to leave, if he doesn't and keeps advancing, I shoot.  Keep in mind this person has already broken into my house, ignored my previous warnings, refused to identify themselves or leave, and is now coming in my room.  He isn't there to deliver flowers.

The thing to understand is the gun is an OPTION, just because you have a gun doesn't mean you need to shoot the guy.

Interesting. Taking the time to study him and figure out if he is armed is a move not everybody would make, and could well end in you yourself getting shot if he is trigger happy.
I see the upside to letting him think I'm asleep and not a threat to him.

Andir

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Re: Gun rights discussion
« Reply #366 on: January 17, 2011, 11:12:47 pm »

I love the idea that all gunshots are fatal.
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"Having faith" that the bridge will not fall, implies that the bridge itself isn't that trustworthy. It's not that different from "I pray that the bridge will hold my weight."

Max White

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Re: Gun rights discussion
« Reply #367 on: January 17, 2011, 11:14:57 pm »

They all have potential to be. A shot in the hand can result in death if your very unlucky.

Andir

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Re: Gun rights discussion
« Reply #368 on: January 17, 2011, 11:16:08 pm »

They all have potential to be. A shot in the hand can result in death if your very unlucky.
And so can a knife to the wrist.
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"Having faith" that the bridge will not fall, implies that the bridge itself isn't that trustworthy. It's not that different from "I pray that the bridge will hold my weight."

Earthquake Damage

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Re: Gun rights discussion
« Reply #369 on: January 17, 2011, 11:16:21 pm »

I see the upside to letting him think I'm asleep and not a threat to him.

I'd expect the likelihood of a burglar hellbent on confronting an armed resident is no higher than the likelihood of one who'd go out of his way to harm anyone he finds, threat or no.
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Andir

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Re: Gun rights discussion
« Reply #370 on: January 17, 2011, 11:18:40 pm »

I see the upside to letting him think I'm asleep and not a threat to him.

I'd expect the likelihood of a burglar hellbent on confronting an armed resident is no higher than the likelihood of one who'd go out of his way to harm anyone he finds, threat or no.
In most cases, an assailant will flee when confronted, lights, visible person, alarm, etc.  Anything that changes in the scene of a crime that could lead to discovery will cause most to leave.

That's why I find this whole back and forth humorous.  There's a notion that having a gun as a last resort is silly, and that all gun owners intend to shoot to kill on sight.  Entertaining to read, not in any way factual.
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"Having faith" that the bridge will not fall, implies that the bridge itself isn't that trustworthy. It's not that different from "I pray that the bridge will hold my weight."

Max White

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Re: Gun rights discussion
« Reply #371 on: January 17, 2011, 11:21:11 pm »

And so can a knife to the wrist.

Funny, I don't sleep next to a knife either.

That's why I find this whole back and forth humorous.  There's a notion that having a gun as a last resort is silly, and that all gun owners intend to shoot to kill on sight.  Entertaining to read, not in any way factual.

If only intent and action were the same thing. Needless to say, the rate of people shooting there own family members is a lot higher in housholds that have a gun.

Sir Finkus

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Re: Gun rights discussion
« Reply #372 on: January 17, 2011, 11:21:41 pm »

I told you, if he's armed I shoot, if not I give him a verbal warning and instructions to leave, if he doesn't and keeps advancing, I shoot.  Keep in mind this person has already broken into my house, ignored my previous warnings, refused to identify themselves or leave, and is now coming in my room.  He isn't there to deliver flowers.

The thing to understand is the gun is an OPTION, just because you have a gun doesn't mean you need to shoot the guy.

Interesting. Taking the time to study him and figure out if he is armed is a move not everybody would make, and could well end in you yourself getting shot if he is trigger happy.
I see the upside to letting him think I'm asleep and not a threat to him.
You act like I'm going to frisk him or something.  Seeing if he's armed would only take a second, and I'd have all the advantages.  He doesn't know where I am exactly, so he'll have to look around the room for me, if only for a second.  I on the other hand, would know exactly where he is.

This whole thing is getting rather silly, and we're starting to slide into pure speculation. 

Earthquake Damage

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Re: Gun rights discussion
« Reply #373 on: January 17, 2011, 11:24:28 pm »

If only intent and action were the same thing. Needless to say, the rate of people shooting there own family members is a lot higher in housholds that have a gun.

...

Shooting a family member requires a gun.  That's like saying the rate of people stabbing themselves is a lot higher when they have pointy objects.
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Andir

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Re: Gun rights discussion
« Reply #374 on: January 17, 2011, 11:24:42 pm »

And I don't sleep next to my gun.  I have an unloaded pump shotgun with a disabled trigger (was a confiscated weapon I got at auction) within reach though for the sound it makes.  If you heard that while invading a home at night, you'd think twice.

Also, FYI, fatality of gunshots.  (I assume this is correct as I haven't read the book):
About 3% of single handgun wounds are fatal. The rates for rifles, shotguns and multiple handgun wounds are much higher. Of handgun head wounds, about 15% are fatal. That's because the skull contains some of the toughest bone in the body. Handgun bullets frequently fail to penetrate it. (Also, the brain is somewhat tougher and can survive more trauma than most people give it credit for.)

Why are the shootings in the news so often fatal? For the same reason that automobile accidents reported in the news are often fatal. "It sells newspapers." "If it bleeds, it leads." News organizations report the remarkable and unusual, the better to attract eyeballs for their advertisers. Minor fender benders happen dozens of times a day, so they aren't news. Likewise minor injuries, with or without guns, most of which are never even reported. These days, even murders are often ignored by the news unless they involve children or mass killings.

Farnam, J.S., "The Farnam Method of Defensive Handgunning," DTI Publications, 2000. ISBN: 0-9659422-2-8.
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"Having faith" that the bridge will not fall, implies that the bridge itself isn't that trustworthy. It's not that different from "I pray that the bridge will hold my weight."
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