Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Urist is dead tome]

I completely agree with Andir. A rare occurrence.

Children need to be educated on the subject. Taught that guns aren't "cool" so as to eliminate a curiosity.

[G-Flex]

Personal opinion, as a gun owner, in Ohio with a permit to conceal carry.  ($150, 12 hours of classes on handguns for self defense, range time, and proper handling.)

I think people abuse the "guns are only made for one thing" line.  I fully agree that they are simply tools and without guns, people would find other long range deadly tools... or make them.  You can't simply go about banning stuff because someone could use it or we will relegate our world to a giant ball pit with Styrofoam cars and mandated plastic dead plugs for all the electrical outlets in people's homes.

I think children that get guns before they are trained should be blamed on the parents.  You can buy gun safes for a pretty low rate these days  (I just got a steal case single weapon locker that I can mount practically anywhere for $25.)  Some of them are specifically designed to allow quick access to someone that knows the proper combination of button presses.  There's no reason for children to get a hold of a gun without a responsible adult.  I think all gun crimes should trace back to the owner of said gun.  (We have detectives for a reason, and it's not sitting in the median of a highway to scare drivers into slamming on their brakes.)

I personally support licenses for concealed carry weapons, I have no problems with properly educating children (in fact I support it) so they don't go get idealistic ideas about them (like they are only tools for death as some of you state.)  And I recommend including the most gory and disgusting images you can drudge up to enforce the image of destruction.  I would even support a mandatory class in order to purchase weapons like the 12 hour CCW course I took.  One weekend is not too much.

It's pretty sad that people continue to blame guns for crime as well.  Crime is a "social problem" and until you solve that problem, crime will be high.  My personal opinion on the matter is "correlation is not causation."  It has nothing to do with ease of access.  If someone wants to kill you, they'll do it while you sleep with whatever tool they like.  Maybe even your own cast iron pan.

Crimes of passion still happen. Guns make it extremely easy for the level of violence in a situation to escalate (much easier than any other tool; you aren't going to see as many heated, regretful deaths using kitchen knives), and accidents are a serious problem. Granted, accidents are also largely the fault of the owner, but there's an inherent danger there, and the type to want to keep a gun for self-defense aren't the type to keep the thing locked away either (for obvious reason).

[KaguroDraven]

I mostly agree with Andir, my only disagreement is the 'fix the social problem that causes crime', and that's only becouse doing that has proved inpossible thus far. As long as there have been laws there have been people breaking them, rates of caught to uncaught and how much crime there is differ of course but nothing people have done has ever been able to completely stop it. Guns do aid in the commiting of more violent crimes and have caused many accidents, but in the end they are still just tools. Tools that should be regulated so any old psycho can't get their hands on it easily, but still just tools. To quote whover the hell said it, I heard it from a friend of mine, "Blaiming a gun for killing people is like blaiming my pencil for mispelling words.". Guns should be allowed to people as long as they go through the proper classes for them and take the right tests, like Andir said, but they should also be kept in places that can't easily be gotten to by kids.


G-flex 'Crimes of passion' tend to use a weapon that is easy to grab, even keeping it in an easy to open(for the person who knows the combination) would deter the use of guns in such things since knives or frying pans or something else would be just as deadly and easier to grab. They do not make crimes of passion more often, they just make them louder.

[G-Flex]

I mostly agree with Andir, my only disagreement is the 'fix the social problem that causes crime', and that's only becouse doing that has proved inpossible thus far. As long as there have been laws there have been people breaking them, rates of caught to uncaught and how much crime there is differ of course but nothing people have done has ever been able to completely stop it.

Fixing social problems isn't just about saying "don't shoot people". It's about eliminating the reasons why people do it in the first place, or the circumstances surrounding it.

G-flex 'Crimes of passion' tend to use a weapon that is easy to grab, even keeping it in an easy to open(for the person who knows the combination) would deter the use of guns in such things since knives or frying pans or something else would be just as deadly and easier to grab. They do not make crimes of passion more often, they just make them louder.

If you think a frying pan is just as easy to quickly kill someone with without thinking, you've honestly been watching too many cartoons. Or even a knife, for that matter. I also think that, in many situations, keeping it in an unlocked (or even locked, if the person knows the combination) box will prevent it from happening. We're not talking berserker-rage grab-the-first-thing-you-see situations here.

When firearms are involved in a situation (even over other weapons), the likelihood that someone will die increases dramatically, and it's easier to fire a loaded gun at a person and kill them if someone is in a bad mental state/situation than it is to beat them to death with a frying pan, of all things.

[KaguroDraven]

I'm aware of the social problems thing, perhaps I should be more precises. Different civillisations the world over have tried everything they could to stop crime ever since they made their first laws. From doing absolutely nothing, to cutting off people's hands for stealing, to outright watching everything people do as much as possible and killing people who commit crimes, and more. Nothing has ever completely stopped it. Some have made people be caught more often than others, some have made the crime rate go down more, but no matter what there has always been some amount of crime that people got away with. At this point without some form of mind control I'm convinced completely stopping crime is inpossible. Crime is done by many different types of people for many different reasons. For example three people steal a bar of gold each, more likely than not all three would have a different reason, one would be poor and be doing it out of desperation, one would be a greedy basterd, one would be doing it just for the thrill of doing it, other possible reasons not included since there are only three people in my example.

It's not that much easier to pull a trigger than push forward. The difference is the trigger is to a gun and you're pushing a knife forward, so no it isn't easier to fire a gun then stab someone. It might be harder to deal with afterwords mentally, but that's a whole other kettle of fish. It's also not that much harder than swinging your arms downward or to the side, a good single hit with something as heavy as a frying pan CAN kill someone in a blow to the head. Just becouse guns where invented to kill humans doesn't mean they make it easier in situations like this than average everyday items.

[Grakelin]

Crimes of passion still happen. Guns make it extremely easy for the level of violence in a situation to escalate (much easier than any other tool; you aren't going to see as many heated, regretful deaths using kitchen knives), and accidents are a serious problem. Granted, accidents are also largely the fault of the owner, but there's an inherent danger there, and the type to want to keep a gun for self-defense aren't the type to keep the thing locked away either (for obvious reason).

If you think a frying pan is just as easy to quickly kill someone with without thinking, you've honestly been watching too many cartoons. Or even a knife, for that matter. I also think that, in many situations, keeping it in an unlocked (or even locked, if the person knows the combination) box will prevent it from happening. We're not talking berserker-rage grab-the-first-thing-you-see situations here.

When firearms are involved in a situation (even over other weapons), the likelihood that someone will die increases dramatically, and it's easier to fire a loaded gun at a person and kill them if someone is in a bad mental state/situation than it is to beat them to death with a frying pan, of all things.

According to this statistic, a Londoner is over three times as likely to be assaulted with a knife than with a gun.

You only need to hit a person with a frying pan once to knock them down, unless you failed to hit them hard enough. Maybe you have been watching too many cartoons and have forgotten the effects of blunt head trauma on the brain.

[G-Flex]

According to this statistic, a Londoner is over three times as likely to be assaulted with a knife than with a gun.

Of course they are; gun control is tighter over there (I think), and knives are easier to get, and we're mostly talking street attacks. However, how many knife attacks are fatal versus similar attacks with a gun? And if gun control there were more lax, would more of those attacks be done with guns or not? And either way, we're talking only about a specific sort of attack.

You only need to hit a person with a frying pan once to knock them down, unless you failed to hit them hard enough. Maybe you have been watching too many cartoons and have forgotten the effects of blunt head trauma on the brain.

I hate to break this to you, but knocking someone down is not the same as killing them, and it's easier to defend yourself against someone trying to hit you with a clumsy, blunt object (or, again, even a knife) than it is to defend yourself against a gun. An attack using a frying pan is not as likely to be fatal, period. If the situation is bad and someone is going to flip out and attack another person for some reason, things are going to be much more deadly if a gun is involved than if one is not.

[KaguroDraven]

Fun fact, alot of 'crimes of passion' tend to be from behind, hard to defend yourself when attacked from behind. A person of average, or even slightly below average, can easily smash in someone's SKULL(not to mention other possible damage) if they get the chance to give it a good swing. Also the many knife victems of the world, includeing several cops who come to mind immediately who had guns at the time, beg to differ about how easy it is to defend yourself from one.

[thobal]

1812 was entirely your fault.

Shut up you fool.

What a load! You jerks were press ganging sailors from every ship in the Atlantic. Your just angry that you can go to Mardi Gras in New Orleans without feeling embarrassed.

Tea Drinking Brit.

[KaguroDraven]

I find it amuseing that the British are associated with drinking tea, atleast here in America, when tea was invented in Asia.

[thobal]

I find it amusing that the British are associated with drinking tea, at least here in America, when tea was invented in Asia.

The British are well known for their insatiable lust for tea. It's not like the "Asians" brought it all over here. The British went over and conquered India then got China so high they didn't notice their wallet was getting cleaned out.

[KaguroDraven]

And we Americans are well known for our insatiable love for burgers, reliveing old glory from wars, hotdogs, and just being generaly uninformed overly prideful twats who think anything other than English(which some Americans call 'American') isn't a real language, and our way of trying to make people who DON'T speak english understand us is just saying it slower.

[LoSboccacc]

side question:
how do you plan to ban guns?

criminals gets ton of them even in countries where those are banned/forbidden/licensed, and domestic violence rate is the same only with knifes.

are we sure that school shootouts are linked to gun only and not also to social conditions? would school shootout be actually prevented by a gun ban, considering that forbidding guns only raises the bar so much of obtaining them? wouldn't school violence simply turn into knife fights?

[Phmcw]

Back to guns :

Andir : Please, let's do an experiment, you with the gun of your choice, will have to stop the next slaughter that will eventually happen in America due to incontrollable guns access.

When that work out, I will be convinced that gun are a good way to improve security.

What do I try to say with this crude argument? Guns can be a lot of things : hunting implement, signalization tool, emergency lock-pick, room decoration... but a glock with an extended loader is only one thing : a weapon designed to kill poeple quickly and easily, and very good at that. There is other way to do it, but there is few that are as efficients than a good old gun.

It's extremely difficult to protect oneself in a gunfight. Having a gun, as showed by the recent events isn't enough. It may eventually help you fight back, but only if you have it handy, and have the opportunity to use it. The next "logic" (because it mostly provide a good laugh on the expense of these "silly Americans" for everyone else) step is to allow every one to conceal a gun on him. Which will eventually result in a major bloodbath , when some poeple will shoot each other because they are all shooting to protect themselves in a total confusion.

Compearing a gun and a frying pan is... well how about you make a test. We equip a killer with a FiveseveN, another with a good quality pig iron frying pan, and we check who make more victims.

Gorjo MacGrymm you lately removed the oil of Iraq from the greedy hands of French company and allowed it back where it belong, in the hand of American company (Yes it's why Chirac was mad), ruining America in the process (because beating those farmer into submission was harder than initially though) . For that you have the eternal reconnaissance of true flag weaving American patriot, the disdain of the left of the electorate (About 30% of he Americans) and the I don't give a shit where is my Havana cigar of the poeple who actually sent you there. You may also have helped with the lithium supply.

[KaguroDraven]

Frying pan guy would get more kills unless gun guy gets more bullets than his gun can hold at one time when you think about it. But then I have no idea what a 'FiveseveN' is since I dislike guns in the first place so I might be wrong.
Also most killers don't kill on sprees with a weapon at one time. Most either do it when 'nessicery' IE when commiting another crime and murder is nessicery to cover it up, or are psychos who murder specific kinds of people in specific ways becouse they are fucking insane! The first type prefer guns becouse of said ease of use but often use knives, the second type use anything from guns to knives to pillows to poison to any number of other things.