Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Phmcw]

There weren't school shootings in the 40s, 50s, or 60s. Back when you could buy them through the mail. They were incredibly easy to buy with little to no qualifying factors. And there weren't school shootings.

Guy, there has been 17 school shooting in Europe. About 107 in America!

As for no guns shooting in the 40s to 60s, there just weren't as many poeple owning a gun. Society was different too.

Hey Goro, do you know how many poeple died for your hobby? I'll just stick with Dwarf fortress.

[Urist is dead tome]

How many people have died for that hobby.

There weren't school shootings in the 40s, 50s, or 60s. Back when you could buy them through the mail. They were incredibly easy to buy with little to no qualifying factors. And there weren't school shootings.

Guy, there has been 17 school shooting in Europe. About 107 in America!

As for no guns shooting in the 40s to 60s, there just weren't as many poeple owning a gun. Society was different too.

Hey Goro, do you know how many poeple died for your hobby? I'll just stick with Dwarf fortress.

107? Nope. Not true.

If anything more people owned guns.

[Phmcw]

Count yourself then.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting

If anything more people owned guns.

Citation needed.

But common sense suffice. More and more poeple are getting better and better guns in America.

[Urist is dead tome]

I.... Was wrong....

[Grakelin]

People who deserve to have guns should have guns. This isn't really any sort of legal argument, but it's where my opinion lies. I don't think we can reach this goal perfectly, but we can at least try through licensing and mandatory courses. My Dad always had guns when I was growing up, which he used primarily for hunting. Not once did anybody die, even when stupid people were present.

[Phmcw]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jan/10/us-gun-crime-gabrielle-giffords-jared-lee-loughner

Over a million Americans have been killed with guns since 1968.

If you had the rate of death by firearm of England 600 000 Americans would have been spared.
But I guess playing with your rifle is more important than their life.

People who deserve to have guns should have guns. This isn't really any sort of legal argument, but it's where my opinion lies. I don't think we can reach this goal perfectly, but we can at least try through licensing and mandatory courses. My Dad always had guns when I was growing up, which he used primarily for hunting. Not once did anybody die, even when stupid people were present.

Point made, made and remade. No European country ever ban guns from sane law abiding citizen who know how to use them.
And some firearm are always easy to get, simply, not the easily concealable ones, nor the powerful.
A Rifle caliber 22long, bulk action only need a basic permit. Now If you want a glock... You'd better prove that you aren't going to shoot your neighbors.

[Grakelin]

I agree completely, with that. I also agree, however, that a person who has proven themselves to be safe shouldn't have to be held back by the mistakes of the weak. My father and the people he hunted with probably could hunt elk with a .22 (they've done it with shortbows), but it wouldn't be fair to them or the poor animal they are offing. High caliber hunting rifles = less suffering for the animal, which is good. Despite what vegetarians tell us, the animal isn't supposed to suffer during the hunt.

[Urist is dead tome]

I don't think you know how gun laws in America work.

Waiting periods are quite common for one thing. And in two states guns are essentially banned.

Bulk action?

[Zrk2]

A .22 could not kill an Elk, it's just too freaking small. They are best for rodents and teaching how to shoot. Even a 30-30 is a little small to get a clean kill with, on an elk.

[Grakelin]

A .22 could not kill an Elk, it's just too freaking small. They are best for rodents and teaching how to shoot. Even a 30-30 is a little small to get a clean kill with, on an elk.

Exactly.

You'd have to get it through the eye.

[Nikov]

You realize with the range of your average shooting a blackpowder revolver circa 1840-60 is just as dangerous as a modern HK USP .45, only the modern weapon has a saftey and won't discharge when a bit of cigarette ash falls on it.

.22 LR is not a round to underestimate. One tiny little unjacketed lead ball tumbling out of a shitty barrel is quite possibly more lethal because it will mushroom and distort around in the body, breaking into little bits and generally ruining your chest cavity. I know a guy who caught one .22 and had full on tension pneumothorax. Meanwhile the 5.56 round being fired out of fully automatic assault rifles is being bitched about by soldiers for going right through people without breaking their stride.

I agree with Grakelin, although 'deserve' is one of those easy to reinterpret rules to where only police deserve weapons, or only Republicans deserve weapons, or only members of the political and cultural elite and their bodyguards deserve weapons. Lets keep the bar low for the sake of not raising it too high. That is, no mentally insane people or felons. Even so, things like this will happen, no matter the legality of firearms, because people intending to do illegal things will aquire their tools illegally if it is so required.

[Urist is dead tome]

I agree with Nikov.

I'm startin' to sound like a sock puppet.

[Phmcw]

Then you go see the police, explain that Paris has somehow been invaded by some elk that keep startling the haulers, and give them a certificate that you know your way around a rifle. They then check that you aren't timecube creator, that you haven't make post on the internet about shooting your school, and that your second home isn't the prison. You get a permit, are allowed to grab your tasty 12 gauge to hunt and you may spill some elk brain around.

Edit

You realize with the range of your average shooting a blackpowder revolver circa 1840-60 is just as dangerous as a modern HK USP .45, only the modern weapon has a saftey and won't discharge when a bit of cigarette ash falls on it.

.22 LR is not a round to underestimate. One tiny little unjacketed lead ball tumbling out of a shitty barrel is quite possibly more lethal because it will mushroom and distort around in the body, breaking into little bits and generally ruining your chest cavity. I know a guy who caught one .22 and had full on tension pneumothorax. Meanwhile the 5.56 round being fired out of fully automatic assault rifles is being bitched about by soldiers for going right through people without breaking their stride.

True, true. But your .45 may have 20 bullet in his magazine and is accurate. .22 long is known to be dangerous but ,please, we don't want our hunter to riot, or to be obligated to wait for two month before killing a rabbit. Beside, If someone go shooting in the street, we'd rather have him doing it with a legal bolt action rifle (.22 long) than with a Kalashnikov bought in the black market.

[Grakelin]

.22 LR is not a round to underestimate. One tiny little unjacketed lead ball tumbling out of a shitty barrel is quite possibly more lethal because it will mushroom and distort around in the body, breaking into little bits and generally ruining your chest cavity. I know a guy who caught one .22 and had full on tension pneumothorax. Meanwhile the 5.56 round being fired out of fully automatic assault rifles is being bitched about by soldiers for going right through people without breaking their stride.

I can imagine it must really suck when that happens, but at least it goes both ways. Or maybe it doesn't. I don't really know what the insurgents are using for ammunition. It could be fields of hollow point spraying in their face.

[chaoticag]

It's because the US army uses NATO rounds, AKA Full metal Jackets. Those are specifically designed to not break up upon impact with a person, and is considered a more humaine form of ammunition than non-FMJ.

Edit: almost forgot to point out the obvious, but insurgents don't use FMJ bullets. At least, not normally.