Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Author Topic: Advanced questions about World Creation  (Read 1684 times)

Interesting

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Advanced questions about World Creation
« on: January 11, 2011, 04:15:14 am »

When it says

DESIRED GOOD SQUARE COUNT IN SMALL SUBREGIONS
DESIRED EVIL SQUARE COUNT IN SMALL SUBREGIONS

Does it mean the world creator will add exactly that number of squares?
Or
It does not necessarily mean it will add that exactly number of squares, it will be random, and if those numbers are not met (as directives), the world will be rejected?

When it says "Number of Demon Types"
What does it mean exactly? It means total number of demons in the world, or just the different castes of demons, as in varieties? What will determine the total number of demons if so?

When it talks about "Titan Attack Requirements", does it mean Titans wont attack unless those conditions are met? Does the Titan attack is procedurally generated for all civilizations? So in the year 1050, all the civilizations that met those conditions were attacked by titans?

Regarding Titan number. Does this mean the total number of titans created in the world, or the total number of titans that are alive after its creation?

Minimum Volcano Number. Is this another directive/condition for map generation, as in, the total number of volcanos are generated at random, but if the minimum value is not met, then that random "roll" is rejected and it tries again, untill said total number is met?

How can I garantee a high number of volcanoes indirectly by changing the other settings? By changing volcanism variance? Any tried and true method to get lots of volcanos?

Or does this actually mean the world creator will actually put that minimum ammount of volcanos, "at least", so it has no chance of getting reject regarding number of volcanos?

Regarding minimum Complete Edge Oceans. Is this random generated and used as a condition as well, or it actually uses the number you set by granted? If its random generated, does this depends on other elements, such as terrain elevation, rain, drainage, in other words, its affected by random indirectly?

About Population Cap After Civ Creation. Anyone ever put the cap at 100.000 to see what happens?

What is the site Cap After Civ Creation? Why it ranges from -1 to 100.000?


How does the X-Y variance works?

If I have Max X variance, does this mean that a value will constantly raise from west to east? And if I have Max Y variance a value will constantly raise from north to south?

If I have 0 X, Y variance, and 1 min, 400 max, will all areas have the same random value? Or does each tile rolls for a value? How does XY variance works if not as a constant that increases a value towards east/north? Is it some factor of randomization or its a way to define things like "hot, mountains on north" if I set a high Y variance for temperature and elevation.

But what about if I want a low value, like cold, in south and west areas? If I put a high variance value on X and Y, I would only get low values on west/south areas if X/Y indeed means a constant. You see, it doesnt make sense that way.

And If I cant control it that way, because its not a constant, then the X/Y variance affects the values how? Make

Regarding "Mesh Size", it says Ignore, 2x2, up to 32x32.
What that means exactly? That if an area has something on that range, it will have atleast 32x32 of stuff in the same weighted range?

If I put Elevation mesh Size 32x32, will I get flat areas of 32x32 in each range? If I have high XY variance in elevation, does this mean that after each 32x32 area there will be a high variation in elevation, like 32x32 plains, then suddenly 32x32 clif, then after walking for 32 tiles, a new 32x32 hill and so on?

Abou the weighted ranges (0-20), to (80-100), does this mean, 0-20 = the lowest 20% of the range of the value. If a value goes from 1 to 100, then 0-20 range means the 1-20, and 80-100, will mean 80-100?

Does volcanos need any kind of elevation to spawn more? Do lakes get affected by elevation? If I have the overall land at 200+ elevation, will I have less oceans? Does it affect lakes, aquifers or rivers in anyway?

In wich part of the world creation the rejections "takes place"? During/after each stage? What are the effects of the rejection? Does it repeat the same process where it failed, or does it force a start over from zero? Are all the rejections the same, i.e. cause the same effects? Sometimes my game will start creating worlds over and over, even after placing cave pops (wich is one of the final stages apparently). Why does it start over? What rejection made it start over?!

I changed ini.txt to create a log of the rejected worlds. Where does it get stored on my computer? I refreshed the folder and found it on the main folder.

Dont need to link me to the wiki, I already read it and it doesnt answer my advanced questions. Im also not willing to read a thousand posts on the forum for indirect and dubious answers. Im looking for clear, direct answers.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2011, 04:25:29 am by Interesting »
Logged

taodih

  • Bay Watcher
  • Aye
    • View Profile
Re: Advanced questions about World Creation
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2011, 05:51:34 am »

alot of those questions should be answerd by This link

If not all...
Logged
Aye
Quote

Interesting

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Advanced questions about World Creation
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2011, 06:28:43 am »

Nah... it does not help.
I specifically mentioned to not repply with wiki. The kind of repply that is worthless, just trying to pick a fight.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2011, 06:32:17 am by Interesting »
Logged

Lawec

  • Bay Watcher
  • Dabbling Goblinslayer
    • View Profile
Re: Advanced questions about World Creation
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2011, 06:34:08 am »

You could try and experiment.
Logged
In order to improve the universe's frame rate, we must all throw rocks into volcanoes and then do absolutely nothing, worldwide, for a week, to take pressure off pathfinding.

Interesting

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Advanced questions about World Creation
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2011, 06:38:49 am »

Another smartass, eh.
Logged

zephyr_hound

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Advanced questions about World Creation
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2011, 07:04:51 am »

Here's some of my observations.


VOLCANISM

I like to embark on a volcano with flux stone on an evil glacier with at least four layers of solid ice. This is obviously not a common terrain type, so I generate very cold high volcanism custom worlds with crazy geology. My settings have been fairly successful at giving me what I want - in my current world I found at least four volcanoes with some level of associated flux stone in a 4x4 embark. This is the volcanism settings I use in a medium world

Volcano number: 100
Volcanism x-variance/y-variance: 3200 (max allowed)
Volcanism frequency:
0-20: 3
20-40: 1
40-60: 1
60-80: 1
80-100: 3

That gives a disproportionate amount of both high volcanism (surface volcanoes and magma pipes) and low volcanism (sedimentary/flux), with the x and y variance cranked up to make it more likely that both types will occur together. I would suggest doing something like this rather than just cranking up the volcano number, as pure igneous embarks are pretty boring mineral-wise. Tl;dr: set a higher number of volcanoes AND mess with the percentages for best results.

Volcanoes do not need elevation. Lakes do. I don't know about setting an overall high elevation - it might be like temperature, which forces both freezing and scorching areas to exist SOMEWHERE no matter what you do.

On x- and y-variance, my understanding is that it's how random the terrain is overall. Say you put high x-variance for volcanism and low y-variance, you'd probably see bands of alternating high and low volcanism geology across your map. Actually, that'd be pretty awesome...



GOOD AND EVIL SQUARES

I've only just started messing around with these and don't understand them either. It LOOKS like the good and evil is placed after the terrain is generated, so it could well be setting an exact number. Really all you need to know is that setting the desired evil squares higher will give you more evil, and vice versa.


MONSTERS

Number of demon types means... the number of types of demons. As in how many different species you get. The population of each individual species is "unnumbered" i.e. millions of them.

Titan number is the total number of titans created. I believe they're now invincible in worldgen anyway, so if you set it to ten titans you will have ten titans in the world when you make your first fort/adventurer.


POPULATION CAP

I'm fairly sure this is to do with sprawl. The larger the population, the more space they'll take over in worldgen. I set it low and gen worlds with little history so the humans don't take all the good embarks. I suspect if you set a massive popcap you'd see huge sprawl but it's not something I've experimented with.


REJECTIONS

Not sure what you're asking here. If a worldgen runs and runs, let it keep going and eventually it'll pop up a window telling you what the problem is and asking if you want to continue or look over your settings again. It rejects all worlds that do not fit your parameters - that's what the parameters are for.



That said, I think you're being a bit lazy. Why not just generate some pocket worlds to test all this stuff out for yourself? I just used a mixture of the wiki page (which IS very good actually) and experimentation to figure things out. I still don't understand exactly how a lot of it really works or what these settings are actually doing mathematically, but I have weird embark requirements and still get the worlds I need to fulfil them, and that's good enough for me.

Otherwise, there's a utility called Perfect World that lets you basically create whatever you want to the extent of painting mountains and rivers on. Your example of wanting cold areas in south and west isn't controllable in the regular worldgen because of the way temperature is created in a randomized band. There will always be a warm band at either top or bottom, and a cold band at the other edge, and an overall temperature gradient (although with some local variation) in between.

I hope at least some of my wall-of-text was useful. If anyone reading this knows this stuff better than me please do jump in and correct me.
Logged
Soapmaker? Looking for a fort to migrate to? Come to Ubenudil! Lush tropical climate, friendly neighbors, rumors of terrifying curse on the land entirely unfounded. Probably.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=85057.0
This message brought to you by the Soapmaker's Guild of Isakudil.

taodih

  • Bay Watcher
  • Aye
    • View Profile
Re: Advanced questions about World Creation
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2011, 09:08:32 am »

Nah... it does not help.
I specifically mentioned to not repply with wiki. The kind of repply that is worthless, just trying to pick a fight.

didint mean to pick a fight but most of those questions were answerd by the wiki link.
Although some more indeth questions are indeed not able to be answerd just by that.

as most was already answerd I'll try to do the rest.

titan requirement is indeed the ammount of wealth that is needed to be created to make them actually attack.

titan number is most likely the ammount of titans created at world gen

volcano number is indeed the minimum of volcanes that need to be created at world gen

with df 2010 there will always be magma if magma layer at botom is checked so just dig deep
but if you wish more surface magma pipes/lakes
This should explain how to gen magma surface with perfect world
(wich i highly recomend using)

pop cap "-1" is mostly ignore option,

rejection are stopped when yearcouting is started. the only way to make it "reject" is your playable civ died out or DF crashed (is because of lack of memory 2gb is max on regular x32 systems/software wich DF is.)

anyway.. for the rest just figure it out and play with it.
you can always go to Worldgen cookbook
or download some other premade worlds.

but all in all I would use perfectworld to really make my own "perfect" world
Logged
Aye
Quote

lastofthelight

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Advanced questions about World Creation
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2011, 06:16:33 pm »

I thought those were good questions which the above posters have mostly answered. I'll add in something about mesh though. I don't know the numbers of how it works, but I believe the mesh size refers to the scale. Think of it as being like one of those circles in MS paint; how big will the circle be. The weighted range is the weighed chance of each.

 I can't give more specific numbers because, AFAIK, they don't really exist, unless you have some awesome codehacker who just knows everything but can't be bothered to write it all down.

 Good questions, though. It can be hard to get worldgen info because a lot of people simply don't -understand- it. Perfect world is now out for DF 2010, and has been for some time. I managed to sideways make my own version of that for .28 (not that I remember how by now or where I put it at this point; I remember repurposing many other utilities but don't remember the details)  so I've figured out a good deal about the worldgen info; but most people either don't bother or just kinda wing it. Usually, its a best guess for you, and a best guess for everyone else.

But that doesn't mean you shouldn't ask, and I'm glad you did.
Logged