Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

I will live inside the core town, working together with others.

8 (24.2%)

I want to live in the town, but have my own plot and do my own thing.

12 (36.4%)

I intend to hermit separately in the general vicinity.

8 (24.2%)

I do not want to join the village attempt.

5 (15.2%)

Total Members Voted: 33

[Fikes]

40 or 50% of the game? Not even close. We managed to find every metal but gold, grow every crop, raise every animal, do pretty much everything in the game and we were mostly a band of newbs. About the only thing we didn't ever try was raiding, but I don't think any of us were really interested in that anyways.

As for the forums, they are a fun read. There is so much history in the game already that the drama plays out interestingly enough. People join the game, get big eyes and suddenly lose everything. It shocks them and they cry. This is the HnH meme. People lock themselves behind palisades spot tree folk, find scents, and post about it on the forums, for everyone to laugh at them.

On the other hand, if you do have questions, people really are generally helpful.

I am willing to take over lawspeaker/chieften of the village. I have all the skills and LP for it anyways. I'll be on tonight, after 4:30 Pacific time.

[Mechanoid]

I've never understood the mentality of the creators of this game.

They've never given a full changelog or development goal list, or even weekly/monthly announcements that even vaguely hinted at what they're doing to the "game" they've made, despite their involvement in the forums with as much intelligence as any of the other posters (or "moderators" for that matter)

That's all you need to comprehend about their mentality as developers.

40 or 50% of the game? Not even close.

I am that 40-60% that never got metal because i was never in a village and had other people doing my work for me, because i insisted my character do everything; and of course with the way item discovery works now, your character pretty much has to do everything eventually anyways, so why not just roll with it.

As for the forums, they are a fun read... On the other hand, if you do have questions, people really are generally helpful.

A fun-to-read cesspool is still a cesspool, and how helpful a portion of the forum community is does not offset that fact. (just look at the Something Awful E/N and GBS forums; now compare that to H&H. now imagine how many idiots from the H&H forums would last on those two SA forums.)

[Fikes]

It has been stated over and over that the hermit lifestyle is very advanced play. You can't say 40-60% of the content is only avaible to 10 people because you haven't seen it when you've been living in a log cabin. Joining a villiage isn't difficult. I personally have seen probably 75% of the content in the game and, again, I was just in our small 8 person village.

If you don't understand the developer mindset, you should read this post. It is mainly about PVP but gives insites into Jorb's mindset in general: http://www.havenandhearth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=17900

The H&H game world attempts -- to no small an extent -- to simulate events and processes of the real world in a digitalized form.

Anyways, all that aside, I am going to try and get the village up and running again.

[Mechanoid]

It has been stated over and over that the hermit lifestyle is very advanced play.

Nonsense. What is a village but a collection of hermits who've agreed to try not to do things the others don't want done to one another? Most people aren't even logged in at the same time.

Also, you can ignore the rest of this post Fikes, it's mostly just commentary on that thread post you linked to and directional raging at it, because damn that thread is just full of full retard. Most of it is just useless fluff-talk and disjointed, like you know, full of, well i think, "may be" shit you could get the point of by now.

"If you are standing on the tile which I wish to plow, I cannot plow it. The land which I have claimed, you cannot claim. The basket that I am carrying, you can not carry. The apple that I have eaten, you can not eat."

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Unless of course it was simply programmed so you could plow tiles beneath players, by making players non-collisionary with one another when using farm equipment; then you totally could farm tiles beneath players. Or share claim areas. Or supportive-carry objects. Or eat an apple only part of the way then pass it over to the next player... Or put multiples of the same type of curiosity into the research inventory and have only one of those type count down and switch to the next in sequence, saving time and server load as a result.

"[there] does not exist a clear divide between offensive and peaceful actions"

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

First, 'offensive' and 'peaceful' are subjective; "What actions a player does and does not want performed" is much more specific, accurate to the arguement, and honest about the players' feelings.
Second and third, they are not mutually exclusive and as provided in that statement, it is in fact a false dichotomy; such as that charming "game of not touching you" example given -- the person can peacefully act like a spaz all they want, and the people around him can or can not be offended by it, and will or will not choose to stop or alter that behaviour.

He saved the worst for last, though:
"New players I would also like to add, should be and are particularly easy to target. The amount of investment needed to create one is so small that affording them any means of special security is inviting for them to be used as grief-machines and if they die, not much has been lost."
Bolded is my emphasis; run that shit through your head for a while.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

A total lack of consideration for the player of the new character which had just died. Never mind he never elaborates on why a new character could be a grief machine. Personally i like to think it's because he feels (even if only subconciously) that the system is inadequate to deal with griefers or even basic crime and pvp. Claims have never really stopped any actual theivery attempts and/or murder from happening, and if the character has no equal or greatly powerful friendly characters to assist post-act, that player has no recourse but to "try again?".
A claim does not jump up and stab people when they start to do shit a player doesn't want done; An NPC guard does that shit. How many NPC guards you see in H&H and how many times you wish you had some? Yeah, exactly.

[Rift]

k, handed over the lawspeaker to fikes, so if you want to try the game/join the village you can talk to him.

@Mech, Yea, his points seem valid to me.

Unless of course it was simply programmed so you could plow tiles beneath players, by making players non-collisionary with one another when using farm equipment; then you totally could farm tiles beneath players. Or share claim areas. Or supportive-carry objects. Or eat an apple only part of the way then pass it over to the next player... Or put multiples of the same type of curiosity into the research inventory and have only one of those type count down and switch to the next in sequence, saving time and server load as a result.

Yes, certainly, in a world where resources were infinite, or players couldnt interact with each other, there would be no competetion and no way to take anything from another player. Neither sounds like a desirable result, but i suppose it might be desirable to certain farming simulator 2010 folk. You can, share claim areas, and many objects can be shared without loss, but unless all desirable objects/resources are like that or all players have sometype of "universal 100%" organized agreement on how to share n stuff, it just wont work the way you seem to be implying. Certainly you can do it smallscale and have 8 players on one server who all agree and stuff, but that isnt this game design, as its a MMO.

First, 'offensive' and 'peaceful' are subjective; "What actions a player does and does not want performed" is much more specific, accurate to the arguement, and honest about the players' feelings.
Second and third, they are not mutually exclusive and as provided in that statement, it is in fact a false dichotomy; such as that charming "game of not touching you" example given -- the person can peacefully act like a spaz all they want, and the people around him can or can not be offended by it, and will or will not choose to stop or alter that behaviour.

I am unsure of what your arguing, however while it may be more difficult to "force" someone to feel a certain way through a MMO, [its not like you can physically torture them], most people are in fact, quite effected by their interactions with people in these games, they make friends, invest time/love into their homes/resources/fields... having them negatively effected does make them unhappy. Im not really sure what you are disputing here.

A total lack of consideration for the player of the new character which had just died. Never mind he never elaborates on why a new character could be a grief machine. Personally i like to think it's because he feels (even if only subconciously) that the system is inadequate to deal with griefers or even basic crime and pvp. Claims have never really stopped any actual theivery attempts and/or murder from happening, and if the character has no equal or greatly powerful friendly characters to assist post-act, that player has no recourse but to "try again?".
A claim does not jump up and stab people when they start to do shit a player doesn't want done; An NPC guard does that shit. How many NPC guards you see in H&H and how many times you wish you had some? Yeah, exactly.

..i assume he never elaborated on why a new character could be a grief machine because their were countless examples inter-sewn throughout the suggestions, and frankly the entire forum if filled with examples of how people grief using throwaway alts. Going into detail would of made the wall of text even bigger, and seems unnecessary to someone who was paying attention to the threads that this was responding to, let alone the various game play mechanics threads that were discussing this issue. I'm pretty sure he has admitted that their are many issues with the system, Given how little time the developers have actually spent making this game i'm amazed they made a system that works as well as the current one. I wouldn't say that a paticularily powerful character is needed to get revenge / punish wrong dooers, as if you have several low level players with a batteringram you could get to and attack a sleeping person and "show them justice"... but i agree that the system really doesn't feel like enough of a deterrent to stop thieves/murders. That being said, Riverend managed to avoid the various thieves+murderers just by having a pallicade. Pretty much completely avoided having a single problem just from a single wall. Yes a claim isnt enough to deter thieves, but a pallicade seems incredibly effective. Also while i cant speak to the new world, many of the previous worlds had rangers/villages that enforced law in many areas, creating various zones that were basically crime free.

[Fikes]

Rift pretty much summed it up. The system actually works really really well. If a medium power force came in to crush Riverend, we could hire a much more powerful force to come collect scents and bring about justice. Who has more to lose in that situation? My 1 million LP character or 5-10 million guys with the nice gear.

People get the completely wrong idea from the forums. They think somehow this game is all about building stuff up and having it destroyed when it isn't, infact, too difficult to protect yourself. Like Rift said, we had very few problems. Once a guy tried to lure us out of the gates and once someone stole our bear. Big deal?

I actually think what killed our city is the lack of conflict.

Speaking of the killed city, we are desperate for new villagers. We need miners, foragers, hunters, smiths... just about anything. We have plenty of food and room.

Finally, if you do join or did join, please move your hearth fires off the pathways.

[DJ]

H&H is first and foremost a PvP game, everything else you do is about making you as PvP ready as possible. If you're looking for a peaceful farming sim, you got the wrong game.

[Jacob/Lee]

If the Bay 12 village is up, what is your relations (if any) with Iron Curtain?

[Fikes]

I know nothing of the Iron curtian.

The village, Riverend, is up. It has been heavily neglected and needs to go through some remodeling and expanding. It is a tad overwhelming right now. I created an alt just to help gathering stones and the such.

That being said we have 2 stone mansions and many many timber houses. We have metals and tools, but lack some basic stuff like freely available leather armor and bear cloaks.

My plan is to fix some problems I have had with the village (creates everywhere and full of crap, disoragized tools, the animal pen) while leveling up an industry alt.

Once that is all taken care of and we have some villagers I'd like to start in on a mega project. It will be either an areana/trade zone or sinister slave camp.

[sonerohi]

Bump. I've signed on with Riverend as an industry sort of guy. If they are letting folk like me in, couldn't hurt to toss your hat in the ring.

[kilakan]

aye we have all of 3 people now.  Pretty good.

[Fikes]

Don't forget my hearth fire bashing alt!

Speaking of which, if you join the village or were in the village, please try to put your fire out of the way. If you go to log on and it spawns you in the wilderness, sorry, but your fire was blocking the path, you can teleport back to village though.

I am going to be out of town this weekend, so no invites until I get back. The only thing I am worried about is making sure we keep your pets fed as many of them almost starved while the town was in ruins.

Other than that welcome to all the new people!

[Impending Doom]

Oh hey, it lives!

Yeah, I kinda dropped out when I kept logging on alone for days on end. If the village is getting lively again, I might decide to resume my old smithing duties.

[Yoink]

This looks cool, I'll try it. Have to learn how the heck to play before I can help, though...

I try so MANY new games thanks to these forums!

[Urist McUristy]

Alright, I just started playing this, how do I get to this "Riverend"?