Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[JanusTwoface]

If nothing new happens, the day will end 24 hours early.

(11:59pm tonight)

[IronyOwl]

Well, I think IronyOwl is the obvious choice now.

I still want to hear what you would have done if you'd been called on your lie, why NF's death doesn't implicate you as the contact, why you were so defensive about it, and why scum would have cared.

What lie? His death doesn't implicate me because I already explained what happened, and if you don't believe me then damn, that must suck, huh? I wasn't defensive, I was trying to see who I could bait with that knowledge. Aaaaand why would scum care which town was confirming each other? Really? Derp.

Shorten.

Your lie about your assist PM. The one that caught Nirur?

You haven't explained shit about why that doesn't implicate you. "Me and NF hatched a plan but then he died" is the opposite of clearing you.

Really? You were acting scummy to see who jumped on you? Brilliant man, just brilliant.

You think your little test confirmed all participants so much that scum just had to dispose of them? Really?

[Jokerman-EXE]

I've had some time to think. First, unvote and Object to Shorten.

I believe I was called out on that lie, in some fashion, by Jim. It was a part of the plan, though, so I don't really think it matters that much.

It may implicate me in your eyes, but I don't really care about that. I'm busy trying to find the last scum, and if you think that's a worthwhile accusation, then go for it. If not, then how about you help me kill the last Dark Apprentice?

Yes, that's exactly what I did. It may not work in the early game, the way Solifuge tried to use it a few Paranormals ago, but it certainly works when it's MiLo. And you should know that.

If you were scum and you had your pick of any townies, knowing none of them had power roles, would you rather just kill one randomly, or kill one of the ones that had gone secretly and confirmed each other? Yeah, that's what I thought.

But back to my first line. Despite everything that's been done, I'm going to venture a guess that IronyOwl is not the final scum. Yes, I may be an idiot for reading into the WIFOM, but sometimes it's just too clear. Toaster, I'm willing to bet the outcome of this game that you're scum. Why, you ask?

Both you and IronyOwl are pretty clever players as scum - I know, I've played with both of you. The question is, however, if you're clever enough for a buss, or to leave your vote on the sinking ship that is your teammate. There's the WIFOM: I'm saying that you're the scum because you were bussing Nirur yesterday. You weren't around to say much, and I know you're just grinning about how hard you are to read, but I've had the privilege of being scum with you more than (I think) anyone else on the forum, and this feels like scum Toaster to me.

Refute me.

[vadia]

if there is discussion I will recend my vote for shorten.  Jokerman, are you saying that you no longer suspect Irony at all?

[Toaster]

...

What?  This is out of left field.

First off:

Refute me.

No.  The burden of proof is on you.  However, I'll indulge in your confusion.

How am I supposed to refute you when you barely present a case against me?  All you've given for reasoning is gut feeling and that you think I bussed Nirur.  There's not much I can say to the first, and the second is getting your correlations backwards.  The logic would be that if I was scum, it would have been a bus, not the other way around.  You haven't said WHY you think it was a bus.

If you're going to accuse me and ask for me to refute your case, give me an actual case, not vague statements and gut feeling.

[JanusTwoface]

Spoiler: Vote Count (click to show/hide)

>>> Vote Count <<<

Day Ends: 10 Feb 2011 @ 11:59 pm EST

Notes
There are no remaining Sorcerers.

IronyOwl	(2)	- Toaster, vadia
Toaster	(1)	- Jokerman-EXE
Jokerman-EXE	(0)	-
vadia	(0)	-
Not Voting	(1)	- IronyOwl
No Lynch	(0)	-

Let me know if I missed anything.

[Jokerman-EXE]

Yes, it is out of left field. I don't particularly feel like letting you have an easy victory. Remember that.

I don't suppose it's possible to prove anything that you won't refute until you get your way. But I can point out that you were the one that received the Assist PMs from myself and Jim, meaning you were the only one capable of giving the contents of the PM to your partner, Nirur. Seeing as Jim and I were the only actual assists, that is.

What do you have to say to that?

[Toaster]

No Lynch. Water, Earth.

Did you forget this?  Irony assisted water D1.  I asked him privately to send me what the power did as well, and his answer matched up.

[Jokerman-EXE]

Assuming that's not a lie (Irony can confirm if it is or not), then that's only a part of it. There's also the fact that you didn't really push Nirur all that much that I can remember; most of it was Jim and myself. Your vote was there the entire time, though.

None of this gets at the fact that your meta is a huge part of this, though. Maybe meta's a bad reason to use D1 and D2, but it's certainly something to look at at LyLo. I know it's you, damn it. Town Toaster plays differently.

[vadia]

Jokerman, while you may be convinced -- that really can't convince me or irony cuz we haven't played enough with toaster to know his style.  (and we can see how good a judge of style I am)

[Toaster]

Here is when I started on Nirur back on D3.


Anyway, to hit the high points from Nirur and Irony's interactions from the whole game:

D1 Irony completely ignored Dariush and Nirur.  Irony and Nirur spent much of the day on vadia- presumably to force through a mislynch on a newbie.  Nirur switches to Dariush after I catch him on a slip, and Irony moves his vote to Taco Dan when the vadia wagon loses steam- note his weak vote reasoning. 

D2 Irony questions Dariush early on, but doesn't vote him.  He then moves back on to vadia.  He votes Dariush only after his fakeclaim, same as Nirur.  Nirur finally posts his read, where he gives a generic read on Irony.  (Yes, I'm aware that he gives the same read on me- see later.)  Irony gets through D2 without mentioning Nirur once.

D3 Nirur finally addresses Irony directly with a generic "give me your scumpicks" question, after declaring us both "too townie."  I think this was done without force on either of us (he backs off me quickly) so as to create a bit of distancing.  Irony comes back with a neutral read on Nirur, for his first comment on Nirur of the game.  Nirur's attack on Irony (remember, he gave the same reason for me) has vasnished, replaced by attacking me for garbage reasoning.  Irony never comments on Nirur's "too townie" attack on him.

D4 rolls around, and it's a bit before Irony's first question to Nirur of the game.  It's the same generic "what's your read on everyone?"  Nirur responds with his reasons that he's leaving Irony alone.  There was a quick exchange between them in the next two posts, then silence.  Irony then mostly ignores this discussion until I directly question him on it.  He gives a non-answer.  Jim tries to get more out of him, but it's like pulling teeth.

On D5, Irony is in defeatist mode.


Clearly, Nirur and Irony have been mostly ignoring each other all game.  Irony has been moving as best as he could to not have to attack his scumbuddy Nirur.  He is scum, through and through.

[JanusTwoface]

Day Ends: ~10.5 hours
10 Feb 2011 @ 11:59 pm EST

Notes
There are no remaining Sorcerers.

[vadia]

Jokerman I'm going to bed relatively soon, so if you've got some fantastic proof. . .

Otherwise I'm going by the "they've been stupid the whole game through" theory.

I don't remember if they'd been mafia before but I don't think they were THAT much more experienced than I am now.  i.e. they'd make a buncha mistakes.

[IronyOwl]

Extension.

It's Toaster though; it has to be. Joker wouldn't have had any reason to abandon his cushy bandwagon, and vadia just hasn't seemed malicious at all, despite his relative spasticness. I just don't think he could hide something like that while acting like he does.

D1 Irony completely ignored Dariush and Nirur.  Irony and Nirur spent much of the day on vadia- presumably to force through a mislynch on a newbie.  Nirur switches to Dariush after I catch him on a slip, and Irony moves his vote to Taco Dan when the vadia wagon loses steam- note his weak vote reasoning. 

This is a lie. At the time, vadia had one more vote than Taco Dan- in fact, you pointed this very fact out in those scum notes you dumped. Which is funny, because you found that scummy also.

D2 Irony questions Dariush early on, but doesn't vote him.  He then moves back on to vadia.  He votes Dariush only after his fakeclaim, same as Nirur.  Nirur finally posts his read, where he gives a generic read on Irony.  (Yes, I'm aware that he gives the same read on me- see later.)  Irony gets through D2 without mentioning Nirur once.

Near as I can tell, most of the people on Dariush were pissed at him, rather than absolutely convinced he was scum. If you've got any specific scumslips of his that I refused to acknowledge, please link them; otherwise, you're just trying to incriminate me with something that was only obvious after the fact.

You're also cherry-picking my lack of interaction with Nirur- I don't remember any questions to or from you that day either.

Finally, you seem to be implying that Nirur's voting Dariush only after his fakeclaim incriminates me because I did it too. Not only was Nirur on him earlier, it was for the same reason as you- this doesn't seem to indicate scum was hell-bent on not bussing him, nor does it explain how I'm scummier in that regard than you are.

D3 Nirur finally addresses Irony directly with a generic "give me your scumpicks" question, after declaring us both "too townie."  I think this was done without force on either of us (he backs off me quickly) so as to create a bit of distancing.  Irony comes back with a neutral read on Nirur, for his first comment on Nirur of the game.  Nirur's attack on Irony (remember, he gave the same reason for me) has vasnished, replaced by attacking me for garbage reasoning.  Irony never comments on Nirur's "too townie" attack on him.

Once again, you fail to explain how Nirur using the same attack on both of us is a distancing move for me and not you, especially since he also then abandoned the attack he replaced it with.

D4 rolls around, and it's a bit before Irony's first question to Nirur of the game.  It's the same generic "what's your read on everyone?"  Nirur responds with his reasons that he's leaving Irony alone.  There was a quick exchange between them in the next two posts, then silence.  Irony then mostly ignores this discussion until I directly question him on it.  He gives a non-answer.  Jim tries to get more out of him, but it's like pulling teeth.

"This discussion" was completely unrelated to that; you're not outright lying, but you're obviously trying to deceive. You're correct that I wasn't paying nearly as much attention as I should have; by that point, I was pretty sure I already knew who the scumteam was. It wasn't until rereading that I realized there was an issue, however, which I proceeded to ask about.

On D5, Irony is in defeatist mode.

I'd been critically wrong about everything and looked like scum to boot; I'm not sure how being as confident as ever would have been a towntell.


So, yeah. You're trying to pick out specific examples to suit your purposes, even when you have to lie to make them work. And even if you weren't, "he wasn't going after the right people" is not what I would call shorten-at-lylo reasoning.

[JanusTwoface]

Spoiler: Vote Count (click to show/hide)

>>> Vote Count <<<

Day Ends: ~1 hour
10 Feb 2011 @ 11:59 pm EST

Notes
There are no remaining Sorcerers.
On a tie, No Lynch will occur.
Extension (1/3): IronyOwl

IronyOwl	(2)	- Toaster, vadia
Toaster	(2)	- IronyOwl, Jokerman-EXE
Jokerman-EXE	(0)	-
vadia	(0)	-
Not Voting	(0)	-
No Lynch	(0)	-

Let me know if I missed anything.