Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Nirur Torir]

EBWOP:  Wait, your reason for suspecting us is we're too townie?  Surely you have something other than that.

My experience has taught me that when nothing particularly stands out in my mind about somebody beyond "no obvious scum-tells" and "probably townie," then something's up.

Nirur Torir: Same deal as Toaster, what exactly do you think you're talking about? You admitted to being useless all of yesterday, then came in to request an extension and throw your vote on Dariush along with everyone else. So what have you done that's useful, and do you actually have a good reason to vote me?

Not much of use, yet, which I apologized for.
I feel like yesterday would have turned out almost exactly the same if you had been on vacation and unable to post. You were here and posting. What did you affect?

[Jokerman-EXE]

I put the pressure on Dariush that caused him to fakeclaim, and I pushed my suspicions of other people, like Toaster and vadia. Whereas you did...what again?

Oh right, got called out for lurking and that's about it.

So how about, when you decide to vote someone, you actually have a reason, instead of a poorly-founded, hypocritical piece of garbage with no weight behind it?

Leaving the Tard Train behind, let's get some useful conversation going. Toaster, I'd still like to see your response, both to my last post and to the question linked therein. Jim, who are your suspicions right now, and why? Two will suffice. IronyOwl, your argument seems pretty strong against Jim, but who are your other suspicions? What if Jim flips town? Are you convinced enough that he's scum?

[lordnincompoop]

Nincompoop:  Welcome!  Few questions to you:
I assume Janus sent you any old PMs vadia got.  Did he assist either of the first two days?  If so, don't tell us what school- just if he assisted.
Who are your top two scumpicks and why?  What is your opinion of Irony's case on Jim?

Thank you. Yes, I got the PMs and yes, he did assist a sorcerer.
I have yet to read the whole thread, but from the posts in the last couple of pages I'll go with these:

• Jim Groovester: I don't think you're doing very well, because you're appearing very suspicious because of those exaggerations Irony mentioned. The unvote looked a bit out of the blue, so if  you can clarify that it'd be awesome. The emotion thing is scummy whethher you meant it to or not, because the only peeps here that need to do that are the scum.
• Dariush: Because of your apparent connection to Jim here, and because of your lack of reaction to Irooni's attackpost against you. One would expect a person to go down fighting.

I think you can figure out what I think of Irooni's case from the two above, but I'll restate it: I think he has good points, and I'll believe him for now since I have no reason to think otherwise.

I know this isn't the place for newb questions, but is it common practice to apply a predecessor's case against the replacement? I just want to know the mechanics here.

[Toaster]

Jokerman:  Hang tight- I want to get this one to nincompoop out real quick.

Nincompoop:  Welcome!  Few questions to you:
I assume Janus sent you any old PMs vadia got.  Did he assist either of the first two days?  If so, don't tell us what school- just if he assisted.
Who are your top two scumpicks and why?  What is your opinion of Irony's case on Jim?

Thank you. Yes, I got the PMs and yes, he did assist a sorcerer.

Which days?  Both or just one?

• Dariush: Because of your apparent connection to Jim here, and because of your lack of reaction to Irooni's attackpost against you. One would expect a person to go down fighting.

You do realize he was lynched at day end and flipped scum, right?

I know this isn't the place for newb questions, but is it common practice to apply a predecessor's case against the replacement? I just want to know the mechanics here.

You're inexorably linked.  Some things (mainly attitude and attendance) you may get a pass for, but actions are stuck with you.

[lordnincompoop]

Which days?  Both or just one?

Just the second.

You do realize he was lynched at day end and flipped scum, right?

Blarg. Arrite, sorry dumb mistake.

You're inexorably linked.  Some things (mainly attitude and attendance) you may get a pass for, but actions are stuck with you.

Arrite. I'll try my best to look over the thread this weekend. Best damn time to catch the flu, I tell ya.

[Toaster]

Jokerman:  I did miss that- my fault.  I'm not sure what you mean- do you mean lots of people point out what Dariush is doing as the potential scumtell?  No.  I asked you about yours because of its relation to what you said of me (vet jumping on a newbie).


I made a list of your D2 posts, and there's more content there than I remembered from first check.  I'll have to unvote Jokerman for now while I read some more and wait for my other questions to be answered.


Nincompoop:  Ok, just wanted to match it up against what he claimed D1.

Let us know what else comes up.

[Jim Groovester]

Jim:  Are IO's discrepancy you noted and his attack on you the only reasons you're voting him?  If not, why else?

You mean that isn't enough? IronyOwl invented a fairy tale and tried to pass it off as scum hunting.

You don't think that WIFOM-laden piece of trash is suspicious at all? What's wrong with you?

IronyOwl has a decent body of activity, and apparent suspicions, behind him, but he loses whatever credit that gives him as soon as he tries to implicate me through Dariush in the most far-fetched way possible.

Jim, who are your suspicions right now, and why? Two will suffice.

Do you suspect anyone else?

IronyOwl, for justifying his vote of me with a WIFOM loaded mess, KaminaSquirtle, for mega lurking, and Nirur Torir for roughly the same thing, and for suspecting people for being too townie.

Do you really think Dariush could have saved his case at the time he fakeclaimed?  He had four votes (would have been five with yours) at the time.

I meant at the beginning of the day. IronyOwl's fairy tale involves Dariush engaging in a slow, steady process of deliberate self-destruction that begins on Day 2 and culminates with Dariush fake claiming that I'm scum so that I look positively golden in comparison. The fake claim was not the start of the plan as IronyOwl tells it. At the beginning of the day, I was doing perfectly fine. Dariush wasn't doing irrecoverably.

As soon as he fake claimed he guaranteed his own lynch.

• Jim Groovester: I don't think you're doing very well, because you're appearing very suspicious because of those exaggerations Irony mentioned. The unvote looked a bit out of the blue, so if  you can clarify that it'd be awesome. The emotion thing is scummy whethher you meant it to or not, because the only peeps here that need to do that are the scum.
• Dariush: Because of your apparent connection to Jim here, and because of your lack of reaction to Irooni's attackpost against you. One would expect a person to go down fighting.

Dariush is dead. And you believing IronyOwl's case because you have no other reason to is extremely lazy on your part. Go read the thread and see if you're still singing the same tune.

Anybody talking about hypothetical night kill targets makes me nervous. It's just not done. There's no good reason to ask what somebody's reaction would be if a particular player is targeted, unless you're trying to maneuver him into a position favorable to you. My name was the target. I got nervous.

And what emotion thing are you talking about? And that's not even true. Plenty of players, town or scum, get emotional in the game.

[lordnincompoop]

Dariush is dead. And you believing IronyOwl's case because you have no other reason to is extremely lazy on your part. Go read the thread and see if you're still singing the same tune.

I'll try my best to look over the thread this weekend. Best damn time to catch the flu, I tell ya.

And what emotion thing are you talking about? And that's not even true. Plenty of players, town or scum, get emotional in the game.

What would be your reaction if Jim is indeed NKed/not NKed?

Holy geeze! What are you planning? Also, why are you continuing to vote me from the RVS?

This worries me. Unvote, Dariush.

[/spoiler]
[/quote]

This post just seems contrived.  And why did you unvote? If you left it, that would have put pressure on him to unvote you.

[Jim Groovester]

It's not contrived and I just told you why. Like I said, there's no good reason to discuss that, and since he was apparently talking about night killing me, I got nervous.

Also, I unvoted because I was voting somebody else at the time.

Votes and unvotes work sequentially. I was voting somebody else (vadia). I unvoted. I voted Dariush.

There was pressure to answer the question because I did vote him. Oh, wait, that's not what you said. You said pressure to unvote. I don't care about that. Why would I? If I was voting people to get them to unvote me instead of finding answers that would be scummy of me.

[Toaster]

Jim:  I'm looking at argument from both sides- hence why I questioned both of you.  I admit I'm a bit low on suspicions at the moment; see my fall back to default activity of asking many questions.

Who else do you think is scum?

[Jim Groovester]

*cough*

IronyOwl, for justifying his vote of me with a WIFOM loaded mess, KaminaSquirtle, for mega lurking, and Nirur Torir for roughly the same thing, and for suspecting people for being too townie.

lordnincompoop is creeping up there because he decided it'd be a great idea to vote me before he did a full readthrough of the thread.

[Jim Groovester]

And it's not just the vote, it's the accepting of IronyOwl's arguments because he has no reason not to believe them. Really? Really? How about them being ridiculous.

So I find it incredibly odd that I'd be the target of his attack before he's even caught up with the thread, and justifying it with one of the laziest reasons I've ever seen.

Okay, I think I'm done ranting now.

[IronyOwl]

The idea that I pulled a, sort of, double reverse bus on the scum sorcerer is not only patently ridiculous but was completely unnecessary. Why the hell would I want to do something so incredibly stupid like that? Since bussing is a desperate move, double reverse bussing must be an incredibly, horribly desperate move.

What double reverse bus? What is that even supposed to mean? He gave you excuses to bus him, you bussed him.

But I wouldn't have needed to do any of that because I was doing perfectly fine. Even Dariush wasn't doing irrecoverably. Why would I tell him to go be a dumbass idiot like he's never been before, and then claim that I'm scum (apparently truthfully, and because the scum's only power role isn't worth keeping), but so horridly that it backfires against him, which is all according to plan, apparently? That's ridiculous. There are better moves for a scum team of me and Dariush to make instead of the stupidest one imaginable.

You're not known for your patience with bad players.

But please, if Dariush's behavior makes zero sense as a bus, since he was doing fine, why did he do that? Are you admitting he could have done better but got himself lynched on purpose, or that he could have salvaged himself but chose a last-ditch effort to take you out with him instead? If scum bussing his sorc makes zero sense, how much sense does a scum sorc suiciding against a townie make?

But thanks for giving it your best try. You look really desperate trying to sell that load of WIFOM laden horseshit.

Speaking of desperation, you seem pretty adamant that you're now confirmed town and anyone who questions that is scum. You're also refusing to answer any questions, as expected.

Irony:  What does Native's statement do to your suspicion of Jim?  Who else do you suspect?

It gives me pause, but Jim might well be cunning enough to smell a trap. Since he's declined to mention anything about the incident (other than publicly state a rhetorical question), I'm inclined to think he just knew it was too good to be true. Since NF didn't mention suspecting his go-between, I'm also inclined to suspect this may have happened on Day 1, which would have been even more suspicious for him.

IronyOwl: Please give your read on everyone.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Jim: Scum. Has no suspicions or even opinions on anyone but his current attacker, was ineptly focused on by someone who seems to have been trying to get themselves lynched and was certainly trying to seal the deal at the end, and reacts indignantly to the mere suggestion that he's not confirmed town now.

Jokerman: Neutral. He's been lurky and somewhat defensive of other people calling him useless, but I get a somewhat town vibe from him. Been somewhat justified in a lot of his pot-kettle responses.

Kamina: Leaning scum. Didn't like his contradictions early in the game, and he never got around to answering them. Very likely to be modkilled or replaced soon, however, so haven't really been concerned about it.

vadia: Noobtown. In addition to seeming rather spastic even for noobscum, I had some townlike PMs with him. I might revise for lordnincompoop, but I'm pretty sure he didn't inherit a scum spot.

Nirur: Lurky. Seems fairly methodical otherwise, so leaning neutral.

Toaster: Lurky. Fair spread of questioning when he is here, but still leaning towards the worse edge of neutral for some reason.

IronyOwl, your argument seems pretty strong against Jim, but who are your other suspicions? What if Jim flips town? Are you convinced enough that he's scum?

Kamina is my main one; I'll probably be looking at Toaster most closely if that doesn't work out. That would definitely be the time for examining everyone, however.

If Jim somehow flips town, I won't know what Dariush was doing, but I'll assume a bus was still involved. I'm pretty certain that even a bussed sorc wouldn't call out the townie he incapacitated before flipping, however, unless there was a very, very good reason to.

[Jim Groovester]

The idea that I pulled a, sort of, double reverse bus on the scum sorcerer is not only patently ridiculous but was completely unnecessary. Why the hell would I want to do something so incredibly stupid like that? Since bussing is a desperate move, double reverse bussing must be an incredibly, horribly desperate move.

What double reverse bus? What is that even supposed to mean? He gave you excuses to bus him, you bussed him.

Dariush claimed I was scum. Presumably, the intent of this would be to get me lynched, and since we are both scum, it would be a bus.

But the actual intent was to lynch him, so it's a... reverse bus, I guess, where I bus my apparent busser. Calling things double reverse makes them infinitely more fun.

But I wouldn't have needed to do any of that because I was doing perfectly fine. Even Dariush wasn't doing irrecoverably. Why would I tell him to go be a dumbass idiot like he's never been before, and then claim that I'm scum (apparently truthfully, and because the scum's only power role isn't worth keeping), but so horridly that it backfires against him, which is all according to plan, apparently? That's ridiculous. There are better moves for a scum team of me and Dariush to make instead of the stupidest one imaginable.

You're not known for your patience with bad players.

But please, if Dariush's behavior makes zero sense as a bus, since he was doing fine, why did he do that? Are you admitting he could have done better but got himself lynched on purpose, or that he could have salvaged himself but chose a last-ditch effort to take you out with him instead? If scum bussing his sorc makes zero sense, how much sense does a scum sorc suiciding against a townie make?

I don't have a fucking clue why he did it!

This is Dariush we are talking about here. He probably legitimately thought claiming I was scum would have gotten me lynched, instead of, you know, what happened. He seemed to think so, what with all his talk that it was up to everybody else to vote me.

And what I'm saying, is that if Dariush, at the start of Day 2 when you accuse me of putting this plan into action, suddenly started playing perfectly, or, at the very least, better, he would have avoided being lynched. A scum sorcerer is a resource worth protecting. It's stupid to just throw that away.

But thanks for giving it your best try. You look really desperate trying to sell that load of WIFOM laden horseshit.

Speaking of desperation, you seem pretty adamant that you're now confirmed town and anyone who questions that is scum. You're also refusing to answer any questions, as expected.

Never said I was confirmed. But, come on. I get targeted by Dariush, he throws all the stupid shit he can think of to get me lynched, and then attempts an obvious spur of the moment fake claim, which backfires in the worst way possible, and you think I bussed him, and had this all planned out? No, the far simpler explanation is that Dariush is idiot scum and I'm town.

It's not a confirmation, but it's close. At least I think so anyway.

And refusing to answer questions? That's a lie. I see a bunch of answers to questions I've received. The only question I didn't answer was yours about how my scum picks have evolved over the course of the game. You could just read the thread if you wanted to know that, but I'll summarize: vadia for being spastic and voting himself, Dariush for keeping his RVS on me, vadia again for being crazy, Dariush again for stupid shit and then his fakeclaim, then NativeForeigner, KaminaSquirtle, and NirurTorir for lurking, and then you for trotting out your mess of WIFOM, then lordnincompoop for agreeing with it and being ridiculously lazy.

Irony:  What does Native's statement do to your suspicion of Jim?  Who else do you suspect?

It gives me pause, but Jim might well be cunning enough to smell a trap. Since he's declined to mention anything about the incident (other than publicly state a rhetorical question), I'm inclined to think he just knew it was too good to be true. Since NF didn't mention suspecting his go-between, I'm also inclined to suspect this may have happened on Day 1, which would have been even more suspicious for him.

No, it happened during Night 2. Immediately after the day ended I got a PM.

I asked the go-between if he was the Water Sorcerer, because he dropped vague hints about it during Day 2. He confirmed that he was, and I had no reason to not believe him. If I was scum I would have targeted him.

[IronyOwl]

I don't have a fucking clue why he did it!

This is Dariush we are talking about here. He probably legitimately thought claiming I was scum would have gotten me lynched, instead of, you know, what happened. He seemed to think so, what with all his talk that it was up to everybody else to vote me.

And what I'm saying, is that if Dariush, at the start of Day 2 when you accuse me of putting this plan into action, suddenly started playing perfectly, or, at the very least, better, he would have avoided being lynched. A scum sorcerer is a resource worth protecting. It's stupid to just throw that away.

See, you're trying to say "Dariush was a sorcerer! There's no way I'd bus my sorcerer if I was scum!" and "This is Dariush we're talking about, he's such a bad player he probably thought he could get me lynched with that fakeclaim that everyone else immediately recognized as horseshit" at the same time. You're also saying that if he'd stopped doing what he'd been doing, he wouldn't have been lynched, which is either irrelevant or agreement with the notion that he was doing it on purpose.

Never said I was confirmed. But, come on. I get targeted by Dariush, he throws all the stupid shit he can think of to get me lynched, and then attempts an obvious spur of the moment fake claim, which backfires in the worst way possible, and you think I bussed him, and had this all planned out? No, the far simpler explanation is that Dariush is idiot scum and I'm town.

It's not a confirmation, but it's close. At least I think so anyway.

And how effective was any of that shit at getting you lynched? How effective was it at clearing you? If you answer "0" to the former and "nearly completely" to the latter, that's some awfully convenient scum.

And refusing to answer questions? That's a lie. I see a bunch of answers to questions I've received. The only question I didn't answer was yours about how my scum picks have evolved over the course of the game. You could just read the thread if you wanted to know that, but I'll summarize: vadia for being spastic and voting himself, Dariush for keeping his RVS on me, vadia again for being crazy, Dariush again for stupid shit and then his fakeclaim, then NativeForeigner, KaminaSquirtle, and NirurTorir for lurking, and then you for trotting out your mess of WIFOM, then lordnincompoop for agreeing with it and being ridiculously lazy.

It was like pulling teeth to get you to list your scumpicks, and it's still pretty much lurkers and your attacker.

No, it happened during Night 2. Immediately after the day ended I got a PM.

I asked the go-between if he was the Water Sorcerer, because he dropped vague hints about it during Day 2. He confirmed that he was, and I had no reason to not believe him. If I was scum I would have targeted him.

Fair enough, but if you're cunning enough to pick up that level of detail, I hardly think noticing an attempt to bait you is out of the question.