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[Tilla]

Here's a much less wordy article: http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2010/12/epa-clothianidin-controversy/

[Sowelu]

While this pisses me off, I have to think:

Are there any major leaks on Aspartame? It seems related in that it'll make people billions at the cost of the environment (in aspartame's case, humans).

No correlation between aspartame and health problems was proven.

In fact, didn't I recently see a study that looked for a connection and didn't find any?

[Virex]

It's being used in more places than just the US; Clothiandin and other neonictinoids have been in use since the turn of the century - around the same time Colony Collapse Disorder appeared to boot. The evidence is pretty damning and if Bayer didn't know for a fact that it was the cause, why do they so fervently avoid any form of proper, independent testing?

Risk management. Even if they know there is no effect, they are the big bad company killing the poor bees. A few poor-conducted studies show your product has negative effects on anything and your reputation is blown, and don't expect people to believe your research in such a case. Not that I am saying that that is the case here though, since it was their own report that got leaked...

[Kusgnos]

I know this might just be me grasping at tenuous straws, but does anyone think that the pesticides that may be killing the bees have anything to do with the dead fish? If runoff makes the pesticide get into the water, could that affect fish habitats?

[Pnx]

Wait wait wait, wasn't Bayer the company responsible for the Bhopal incident?

EDIT: Nope, my mistake, that was Union Carbide... Never mind.

EDIT2: Now I remember, it wasn't the Bhopal incident, Bayer was one of the big Nazi chemical companies that developed the Auschwitz gas chambers... Also it was at least partially responsible for heroin. But that's all smearage, it's not really any shadier than most other chemical companies.

[Nikov]

IBM made automatic carbines in World War II. Your computer is stained with the blood of innocents.

[Tellemurius]

Ford made tanks for the war, how come i can't buy a tank >:C

[Sir Pseudonymous]

You can, actually. I believe some of them are even cheaper than run of the mill SUVs. They're just extremely fuel-inefficient, not road-legal (though there are road-legal armored vehicles, also purchasable), and have had all their weaponry removed for obvious reasons.

[Pnx]

Ford... Ford's a rather famous example, but not for the tanks...

But like I said that wasn't a point to really go against them... I was just thinking, if they were responsible for Bhopal and this... But yeah, I mixed up "the yes men fix the world" with something from a documentary I watched a few days ago.

[ein]

IBM made automatic carbines in World War II. Your computer is stained with the blood of innocents.

Guns are business machines?

[Fossaman]

IBM made automatic carbines in World War II. Your computer is stained with the blood of innocents.

Guns are business machines?

For serious business, yes.

[Nikov]

IBM made automatic carbines in World War II. Your computer is stained with the blood of innocents.

Guns are business machines?

For serious business, yes.

Mechanical computers. IBM was in the business of making really fancy little mechanical parts that had to work flawlessly in hundreds of times per minute. Punch-card computing and whatnot. They were also calculating up all the range tables for artillery and bombsights.

Anyhow this is interesting. I should ask my father about this chemical and if he sells any of it. Quite possibly its an easily replaced pesticide so nobody has to actually choose between evil industrial corn and cuddly little honey bees, which is great, because frankly I have no idea what post-apocalyptic economic horror a cornless midwest would look like. And frankly, you do NOT want to know how much sugar would cost if HFCS were no longer on the market. Sweet Jesus you'd sooner put gold dust on your breakfast cereal if that happened.

[Aqizzar]

...I have no idea what post-apocalyptic economic horror a cornless midwest would look like. And frankly, you do NOT want to know how much sugar would cost if HFCS were no longer on the market. Sweet Jesus you'd sooner put gold dust on your breakfast cereal if that happened.

While a Road Warrior descent into chaos because all the corn dried up would be worth the watch, it begs the question.  Corn farming wasn't exactly on the decline before they started using this new bee-killing pesticide, so why don't they just go back to whatever they were doing before.  Corn syrup hasn't exactly gotten cheaper in the past few years, so it can't translate into that great an impact on the farming economics over some previous chemical.

[Fayrik]

And frankly, you do NOT want to know how much sugar would cost if HFCS were no longer on the market.

I'm no expert on the matter, but doesn't mass killing bees also put the price of sugar up insanely as well?
As well as the fact, you're basically killing off the one thing that procreates your crop.

No bees? No corn. Or wheat.
I can't say that looks good, economically.

[de5me7]

Isn't Colony Collapse a global problem? This poison might make it worse for the bees but beehives are collapsing around the world and i dont think they sell clothianidin anywere but the US. I doubt that there is only one thing killing the bees, there probably is several things that are harming them.

Colony Collapse dissorder is a bit of a misnoma as a term. It has been used to describe pretty much anytime a bee colony dies, either fast or slow, when the owner or observer isnt quite sure of the cause. Globally bee populations are 'believed' (not sure what data this is based on) declining, but this does not mean theres one sinister global factor, more probably theres loads of more localised factors. I will have to read the 1st post article and link in more detail, but it would appear that this a local example.

Bees are a big deal because of their ecological role in plant fertilisation and genetic distribution.

also most importantly Hugo Bosch designed the german WW2 parade uniforms, which is why they look so damn good in the grey