Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Duke 2.0]

Do you really want to compare the shit Chris Matthews says to the shit that the likes of Glenn Beck says?

I don't want to defend the guy or take any position in this debate, but this point seems to keep on being brought up. While different parties may have different intensities this argument is starting to become hypocritical. If both parties use terminology of violence then both parties should change, not just the one who is more aggressive about it. It's starting to look like that unless somebody does something worse than Glenn Beck their side is innocent in all this.

[mainiac]

Do you really want to compare the shit Chris Matthews says to the shit that the likes of Glenn Beck says?

If both parties use terminology of violence then both parties should change

WE DO NOT

That is the fucking point.  Every time the right wing gets called out for poisoning the well of democracy, they throw a hissy fit about "the left does it too!" by taking a load of shit out of context.  The sins on the right are far, far, far, far, far worse then the sins on the left.

But a bunch of well intentioned people trying to be balanced believe that they should treat both sides the same.  Well I'm sorry, if you want to be judge, then you need to familiarize yourself a lot more with the issue, not just call for "fairness".  The fact is that calls for violence are a lunatic fringe on the left whereas that lunatic fringe on the right is the mainstream.  No movement can prevent a lunatic fringe from emerging but they can deny it a place in the mainstream.

[Fayrik]

Yeah, but, if the left can actually find something out of line, what's the harm in changing it?
The point isn't whos out of line, it's the fact that both sides to an extent are calling eachother out and using it as an excuse to not change themselves.

[mainiac]

Let me offer a metaphor.  I tend to be a bit touchy on this point because of what happened to me in grade school.  When I was in grade school, I got bullied a lot.  I was a very polite child and tried not to rise to the bullying.  But inevitably I would snap and then there would be a fight.  And do you know what happened every time?  My shit headed vice principle would punish both me and the bully equally, irrespective of the weeks of bullying the preceded each fight.  This completely failed to deter the bullies and they would immediately start again, knowing that I wouldn't risk another fight so soon after the last one.

The neutral parties in this country refuse to recognize that their insistence on blaming both sides is merely encouraging the behavior that they claim not to like.  But without consequences, what exactly do you think is going to happen.  Well in my personal life eventually I gave up and transfered to another school.  But America can't exactly transfer to another school.  We need to learn to live together and the first step to do that is to call a spade a spade and identify extremist rhetoric for what it is.

That stupid out of context Obama quote isn't extremist rhetoric no matter how dearly the right wing squeezes it's eyes shut and imagines.  There is extremist rhetoric on the left but it is kept where it belongs: on the fringe.  The right wing should man up and do the same.

[ChairmanPoo]

You can't have a civil war were both sides think they're the original country, and one wants to kick the other out.

Actually, aren't all civil wars like that?

[GaelicVigil]

Do you really want to compare the shit Chris Matthews says to the shit that the likes of Glenn Beck says?

I really don't see the difference between the two.  They both work for opposing cable news stations, they are about equal in terms of stature and prominence in America, and they both pretty much detest the opposing party.  I think the comparison between Matthews and Beck is a pretty good one.

Show me a point, anywhere, where democrats, actual elected democrats, advocate using violence against the opposition.  Then we can talk about 'moving the goalpost'.

But you already did move the goal posts.  Read carefully the original question:

Find me five Democrats from this past election who talked like that about their opponents or their government. Find me one.

 

I found one that fits: Chris Matthews.

You've moved the goal posts in the sense that you're now invalidating the answer by asking a new question which includes only "elected democrats".  This is the informal fallacy you've just committed.

[mainiac]

Do you really want to compare the shit Chris Matthews says to the shit that the likes of Glenn Beck says?

I really don't see the difference between the two.  They both work for opposing cable news stations, they are about equal in terms of stature and prominence in America, and they both pretty much detest the opposing party.  I think the comparison between Matthews and Beck is a pretty good one.

I have to go to work now... but really?  Glenn Beck isn't any worse then Chris Matthews?

You've moved the goal posts in the sense that you're now invalidating the answer by asking a new question which includes only "elected democrats".  This is the informal fallacy you've just committed.

Actually, the original question was congressmen, so you are wrong.  And if you want to extend this to everyone, then we'll just be comparing the KKK and the truthers.

[Fayrik]

The neutral parties in this country refuse to recognize that their insistence on blaming both sides is merely encouraging the behavior that they claim not to like.

Actually, you missed my point.
I'm telling you, don't just deny what they're saying. Always listen to what the other side says.
Just because in one instance they may be spewing crap, you have to take note of that crap because other people are too.
If you don't, you'll be losing place in the arguement.

Infact, why the hell did this topic become a left vs right argument?

[Glowcat]

Here's another Democrat inciting violence

Inciting people to shoot Rush with... a BB gun?

When that's the best you can come up with, it's time to examine how desperately you're looking for evidence that isn't there. Matthew was making a fat joke, not calling for armed rebellion or even assassination.

[Alexhans]

I love how a lot of poeple are all "don't start pointing fingers at a party in the midst of such a tragedy".
...

lots of example of hate speech from one side...

...
Put the blame on those that deserve it. Especially if the result is several murder over several year.
Bill Gwatney, George Tiller, ...

Sure, now develop on the influence of that hate speech events on Jared's particular actions. 

Yeah, but, if the left can actually find something out of line, what's the harm in changing it?
The point isn't whos out of line, it's the fact that both sides to an extent are calling eachother out and using it as an excuse to not change themselves.

Finally!  Finally someone manages to make a point out of this. 

A proclaims stealing is wrong
B proclaims stealing is wrong.
B accusses A of stealing
A counter accuses B (justifying it's own stealing?)

Infact, why the hell did this topic become a left vs right argument?

Because every topic involving USA politics (no matter how remotely) seems to come down to this.

I see a majority of people, every time, fighting it out from their side, as if it was Real Madrid vs Barcelona, Boca vs River, lakers vs celtics, Yankees vs Red Sox, etc.

We don't come to this forums to learn anymore, we don't come with an open disposition to consider how we might be wrong, we don't seek truth's that might destroy our previous ideas.  We just gather whatever fits with our mindset and ignore the rest.

[Decimator]

I'm curious how Mainiac will try to invalidate this one:

http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/Defeated-Scott-florida-Shot/2011/01/12/id/382582


Fayrik: This became a left vs right argument because the leftists here seem to want to blame the right for this.  Despite all evidence pointing to this guy being nothing more than a violent, anarchist nutjob.



Scary.

[Eugenitor]

We don't come to this forums to learn anymore, we don't come with an open disposition to consider how we might be wrong, we don't seek truth's that might destroy our previous ideas.  We just gather whatever fits with our mindset and ignore the rest.

[Sir Pseudonymous]

They're not actually blaming the right wing for it. They're saying "hey, see this thing that just happened? That's what it looks like when people do what you're saying they should. Shut the fuck up with that."

[Decimator]

Looks like here's some new information:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110112/ap_on_re_us/us_congresswoman_shot_146

http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/jared-loughners-friend-says-suspect-did-not-watch-tv-disliked-the-news_b48040

Can't comment on the video yet, I don't have time to watch it.

[Fayrik]

Fayrik: This became a left vs right argument because the leftists here seem to want to blame the right for this.  Despite all evidence pointing to this guy being nothing more than a violent, anarchist nutjob.

Yet another example of my point.

Ten points to whoever manages to make the next comment be not an attack on the other side anyone.