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Author Topic: Proceedurally Generated RTS  (Read 57163 times)

Akhier the Dragon hearted

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Re: Proceedurally Generated RTS
« Reply #195 on: February 03, 2011, 04:23:24 pm »

   I knew there had to be something random in the
fights. Once you can have a match that is exactly
the same end up exactly the same move for move
it will be assure that a>b, b>c, and c>a. Till then
though its up for grabs. Any random element in the
fight could tip it one way or another.
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Join us. The crazy is at a perfect temperature today.
So it seems I accidentally put my canteen in my wheelbarrow and didn't notice... and then I got really thirsty... so right before going to sleep I go to take a swig from my canteen and... end up snorting a line of low-grade meth.

Draco18s

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Re: Proceedurally Generated RTS
« Reply #196 on: February 03, 2011, 04:27:19 pm »

The only other random element is their "center of stage" destination, and its only a variance of about 20 pixels.  I'll look though.
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Akhier the Dragon hearted

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Re: Proceedurally Generated RTS
« Reply #197 on: February 03, 2011, 04:35:12 pm »

   If I remember correctly speed and range is in pixels so while
20 pixels may not seem like a lot it could make a big difference
on how quickly a unit gets into a fight with its target. If a unit
is slower or faster to a fight then the fight will end at a different
point each time and if one game all of one side happens to win
its fights quicker then it could end up winning because of it.
   I just watched it and the speeds where around 10 so a 20
pixel variance is twice the average speed I was seeing. The end
units had for speed 7, 7, and 11. Their range was 53, 57, and 59.
a 20 pixel differences could mean a lot in this case.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2011, 04:38:35 pm by Akhier the Dragon hearted »
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Join us. The crazy is at a perfect temperature today.
So it seems I accidentally put my canteen in my wheelbarrow and didn't notice... and then I got really thirsty... so right before going to sleep I go to take a swig from my canteen and... end up snorting a line of low-grade meth.

Draco18s

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Re: Proceedurally Generated RTS
« Reply #198 on: February 03, 2011, 05:36:01 pm »

   If I remember correctly speed and range is in pixels so while
20 pixels may not seem like a lot it could make a big difference
on how quickly a unit gets into a fight with its target.

Ehhh....
*Sets the location to a fixed spot*
That did it, amazingly enough.  Huh.

BTW, target-seek range is 200 pixels, fixed.*  Its not based on range, as I was having units with excessively low ranges (say, 40 pixels) sitting in the middle of the stage while 100 range units killed them all one by one.  Tweaked targetting logic a little to try and order them a little better (in range and not already targetted, then within range, then within 200, each chunk only happening if the previous chunk had no targets) and then picking one of those targets at random.

So if there are 4 targets in range and three of them are being fired on already, it picks the fourth all the time.  If all of them are being fired on, then it picks one of them.  If there are no units in range, it checks out to 200 pixels for any target.

This should cause them to spread their fire which is less efficient than focus-fire, but should help avoid the issue of all the units ganging up on one (which can lead to one unit beating another even though the other is stronger).

*I should note that it would push units that were in range before units not in range, but within 200 pixels first, so a "pick first target" seek would pick the first target inside range, as opposed to the target with the lowest index in the array within 200.

Edit:
This might not be a good solution, just trying it out.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2011, 05:40:54 pm by Draco18s »
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Akhier the Dragon hearted

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Re: Proceedurally Generated RTS
« Reply #199 on: February 03, 2011, 05:39:56 pm »

   Random is as random does and what it does is screw
with your head. Its like that old saw about a butterfly
flapping its wing and ending up making a tornado. It
might seem small till the storm comes.
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Join us. The crazy is at a perfect temperature today.
So it seems I accidentally put my canteen in my wheelbarrow and didn't notice... and then I got really thirsty... so right before going to sleep I go to take a swig from my canteen and... end up snorting a line of low-grade meth.

Draco18s

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Re: Proceedurally Generated RTS
« Reply #200 on: February 03, 2011, 05:41:34 pm »

   Random is as random does and what it does is screw
with your head. Its like that old saw about a butterfly
flapping its wing and ending up making a tornado.

The Butterfly Effect is never that pronounced when applied to butterflies, but yes.
Its only called that so that people can wrap their minds around small things having a big impact.
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Akhier the Dragon hearted

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Re: Proceedurally Generated RTS
« Reply #201 on: February 03, 2011, 05:48:53 pm »

   Meh, I can imagine a single sub-atomic particle causing
the whole of everything to change. A butterfly is made of
so many sub-atomic particles its not even funny.
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Join us. The crazy is at a perfect temperature today.
So it seems I accidentally put my canteen in my wheelbarrow and didn't notice... and then I got really thirsty... so right before going to sleep I go to take a swig from my canteen and... end up snorting a line of low-grade meth.

Draco18s

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Re: Proceedurally Generated RTS
« Reply #202 on: February 03, 2011, 05:54:54 pm »

   Meh, I can imagine a single sub-atomic particle causing
the whole of everything to change. A butterfly is made of
so many sub-atomic particles its not even funny.

I, unfortunately, understand statistics and physics a bit better than that and doubt that a single sub atomic particle could cause events on the macroscopic scale that.

Either way, the cause-effect relationship could never be shown to be true.
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squeakyReaper

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Re: Proceedurally Generated RTS
« Reply #203 on: February 03, 2011, 05:57:20 pm »

I forgot to turn on my alarm clock last night, resulting me in waking up five minutes late.  Because of that I miss the bus.  Since I couldn't catch the bus, I had to walk to work.  When I got there, I was disheveled and in a bad mood, not to mention late.  I got fired because of my bad attitude.  Because I don't have a pay check coming in, I stop buying lottery tickets.  In an alternate world, I would have woken up on time, gotten to work, and bought a winning lottery ticket.  Small thing changed the world, or at least me, in a huge way.  =P

At any rate, there's a question there.  Should A ALWAYS be able to beat B, or just have a high chance of?  I guess it's not much of a triangle if B can beat A, but worth asking.
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Akhier the Dragon hearted

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Re: Proceedurally Generated RTS
« Reply #204 on: February 03, 2011, 05:58:46 pm »

   Its a matter of in the fixed equal teams A should
always beat B.
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Join us. The crazy is at a perfect temperature today.
So it seems I accidentally put my canteen in my wheelbarrow and didn't notice... and then I got really thirsty... so right before going to sleep I go to take a swig from my canteen and... end up snorting a line of low-grade meth.

squeakyReaper

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Re: Proceedurally Generated RTS
« Reply #205 on: February 03, 2011, 06:00:56 pm »

So the randomness should be in the units themselves, not the battles?  Makes sense.
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Akhier the Dragon hearted

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Re: Proceedurally Generated RTS
« Reply #206 on: February 03, 2011, 06:02:02 pm »

   I like the way that Dominion 3 handles it.
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Join us. The crazy is at a perfect temperature today.
So it seems I accidentally put my canteen in my wheelbarrow and didn't notice... and then I got really thirsty... so right before going to sleep I go to take a swig from my canteen and... end up snorting a line of low-grade meth.

Draco18s

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Re: Proceedurally Generated RTS
« Reply #207 on: February 03, 2011, 06:03:14 pm »

I forgot to turn on my alarm clock last night

Turning on your alarm clock is not the responsibility of a single sub atomic particle.

So the randomness should be in the units themselves, not the battles?  Makes sense.

I don't mind randomness in combat, its just playing havoc with the ability to determine if one unit is "better" than another.
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Akhier the Dragon hearted

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Re: Proceedurally Generated RTS
« Reply #208 on: February 03, 2011, 06:09:37 pm »

   This is a matter of time really. One badly placed bit of
radiation could sterilize some man causing everyone that
would have been his descendant to not exist. Or maybe
the Big Bang happened because of one thing being in a
certain place at a certain time and without it nothing as
we know it would exist.
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Join us. The crazy is at a perfect temperature today.
So it seems I accidentally put my canteen in my wheelbarrow and didn't notice... and then I got really thirsty... so right before going to sleep I go to take a swig from my canteen and... end up snorting a line of low-grade meth.

squeakyReaper

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Re: Proceedurally Generated RTS
« Reply #209 on: February 03, 2011, 06:10:05 pm »

I forgot to turn on my alarm clock last night

Turning on your alarm clock is not the responsibility of a single sub atomic particle.

Its only called that so that people can wrap their minds around small things having a big impact.

I was more relating to this; small things have a big impact.  And to your "huh, that did it" when relating to a tiny event.  At any rate, small things can matter a lot.
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