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[Sergius]

Saw the two parter season premiere. Fun, if the end was a bit predictable.

Found this comment in YouTube pretty funny though

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

"Check it out, Discord got stoned. Good thing Discord didn't get transformed into a cute pony that says 2 lines and gets a huge ass fan base after that.
- frypoddie"

[kaijyuu]

Oh he still has a huge ass fanbase

[Sergius]

Oh he still has a huge ass fanbase

Yes but not for the reasons stated

[Bohandas]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Are you serious? Penises don't vibrate at 3000 rpms either.

Maybe yours doesn't...

[Dsarker]

https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/!/petition/aid-lunar-revolution-overthrowing-oppressive-celestian-regime-equestria/cFXRkK0v


I lol'd.

[Dwarf_Fever]

I doubt he did both, but it's irrelevant. Your comment was about the appeal of horses and ponies, not about the activities one might engage in to display that interest.

I'm not making that assumption, though, as far as I can tell. I agree with you! That assumption is often made. It's also entirely and completely beside the point of what you quoted - which was that, regardless of origin, the current cultural norm is that girls interested in sports are "quirky" or otherwise unusual, and there's often (but not always) a negative connotation associated with it. Horseback riding is one of the few exceptions, though it does require wealth.

I'd agree, except there's a difference between martial or sports activities involving horses and the horses.

I'm familiar with the Smurfette Principle, and I follow your reasoning right up until "the exact reverse". Which is to say, not very far; there's no character whose defining characterstic is "masculinity" in the show. The closest is Spike, and he doesn't seem to be adequately described by being labeled "dudely".

Actually, the Smurfette Principle is mainly defined by a single female role in an overwhelming cast of males, further generally insignificant to the plots; they are nearly always stereotyped, though that is not the defining criteria... the sort of stereotype is still telling, and horses in the role of strong, servantile animals appealing to girls seemed to me a very interesting coincidence with a male servantile role in the cartoon revolving around horses. That sparked my interest. But as you can see, the Smurfette Principle and thus sexism applies very much to MLP; in reverse, of course.

I further don't get where this "emasculation" stuff is coming from, you'll really have to explain that to me;

That would be a very long discussion, but the brief idea is that there has been a subtle, ongoing cultural assault on masculinity ever since the feminist movement took root. Just as a starting point, you'll find the end results of the movement in culture are rarely equality in context, but rather advantages for women or disadvantages for men... case in point being fathers having far less rights than mothers, for instance. Or that British Airways, Qantas, and Air New Zealand all had policies prohibiting men from sitting next to unaccompanied children on commercial flights despite that there has never been a documented case of in-flight child abuse. Or that (based on exonerations) men on death row were found to be twice as likely as women to be wrongfully convicted. And so on, but more importantly, that it's glossed over. Can you imagine the outrage if, for instance, an airline had a policy stating "No black people shall be allowed to sit next to unaccompanied children on commercial flights"?

To quote Ph. D. author Warren Farrell, "In the past quarter century, we exposed biases against other races and called it racism, and we exposed biases against women and called it sexism. Biases against men we call humor."

if a key part of the following involved insisting that "masculine" stuff is bad, that'd be another thing. But judging from the popularity of Pony/Warhammer crossovers, that's just not the case.

Who said I'm talking about the following? There's gay fanfic of bible stories, that doesn't mean the Pope wrote it. (Though I wouldn't be terribly surprised if he did.) Joe Catholic doesn't run the Vatican, but the Vatican will influence how Joe thinks.

From some research, I can say with confidence that I lack the knowledge necessary to comment on the Tom Martin case competently - it's plausible that he's correct, but it's far from certain. I'd need to actually read the material for those courses in order to determine whether I think there's institutionalized sexism there, and to be honest, I wouldn't care enough if the material even existed for me to read because it would be hours upon hours of reading just so I could nitpick somebody else's argument over the internet.

I understand, it's not an interesting topic to most. The unfortunate thing (beyond that, itself) is that I don't think it matters that he's correct.

[LordBucket]

So I've finally got around to watching part two of the season two premiere. For your amusement, here is a big ol' analysis of Discord and his role, enclosed in spoilers because it contains episode spoilers.

I spent a lot of time writing this. Please read it.

My theory: Discord and Celestia were in it together:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Discord and Celestia were in it together:


Image by SirKilmoreRyan compliments of bronies.memebase.com

After watching the first part of the season two premiere I was left with the impression that Discord was a well intentioned trickster mentor. Much like Q. His idea of spreading chaos in the world? Making cotton candy clouds and chocolate milk rain. Hardly dangerous. He demonstrates reality warping powers, but he makes a point of only affecting Ponyville, and in particular, even though he shows up personally to confront Celestia in Canterlot, he very specifically doesn't break anything, doesn't cause any damage or ruckus in her castle. He could, but he chooses not to. He's very delicate and considerate about the whole affair. And when he takes away the mane casts horns and wings, he even reassures them that they will get them back so they don't worry.

He's outwardly "Hahahah! I'm chaos!" but his actual actions, while "shocking" are generally harmless and gentle.

Next, notice that while he uses his magic to directly affect 5 out of 6, he does not corrupt Twilight like he does the others. When Twilight eventually goes gray in part 2, she does it to herself when she gives up on her friends. Discord isn't even there when she does. But, as soon as she does, he immediately shows up in the next scene.


Twilight's taking this really hard. I hope she'll be ok.

Take a look at his face. He's worried that he and Celestia went too far. Go watch that scene again. He's obviously trying to cheer her up, and he pulls the cloud off of her and eats it. Isn't he's supposed to be the villain here? But he refuses to corrupt Twilight, and when she falters and gets corrupted through her own lack of faith, within seconds he's there consoling her, looking visibly concerned and pulling clouds away so they stop raining on her.

Still, he has to maintain appearances. So he laughs maniacally, and (I theorize) immediately goes running back to Celestia (off screen) so she can give Twilight the help she needs by sending the friendship scrolls to bring her out of her gloom.

This whole thing is obviously a setup for Twilight's benefit.

Any other times Discord helped her? Maybe, more overtly and clearly onscreen rather than my speculation? Actually, yes. Not only was he the one who gave the riddle in the first episode describing where to find the missing elements, but when Twilight incorrectly interprets the riddle that they're in the maze, he specifically tells her that's not where they are, and as if that's not enough help he takes her back in time so she can hear the riddle again:


Pinkie Pie notices something suspicious

Come on, how much more could he be helping her out? Oh, wait...where did he hide them? In her house. Yes, he seriously hid the elements of harmony from Twilight Sparkle, by putting them in Twilight Sparkle's house. In a book, no less.


Goodness! A bookworm like me would never think to open a book in my own house!

Oh, what's Twilight's favorite hobby? Reading, right? So even if everything went totally wrong and Twilight never figured out the riddle, Discord hid the elements somewhere that Twilight would definitely find them anyway.

Now, watch the scene where the mane 6 go to confront them after restoring their faith in each other. He could use his magic to stop them. He doesn't. when they explain When he telekinetically lifts them towards him, he lifts everyone except Twilight so she can rescue them. And interestingly, he is very clearly shown pulling them by the elements of harmony, but deliberately not taking them away. He's warped reality, conjured all sorts of crazy things, time traveled, harmlessly removed body parts from ponies...but he makes a point of leaving them with the weapons they need to confront him. And then he tells them to do it. He actually sits there politely and waits for them to use the elements to turn him to stone, after nicely telling them to go ahead so they won't feel guilty about it. And remember, these are allegedly the same elements Celestia and Luna used to imprison him centuries prior. He knows they work, but he sits there and lets them do it. Why?

Well, remember what happened the last time they were used?


Hi, sis! Good thing those elements of harmony aren't weapons or anything

While "officially" he was a villain to be vanquished, this whole thing makes more sense if Discord and Celestia were in on it together. Remember when Discord first shows up at the palace? He already knows the mane cast, addresses them each by name and points out their strengths. How does he know who they are? Because Celestia told him all about them when they arranged this whole affair.
 The entire season premiere is an elaborate ploy to teach Twilight a lesson. Celestia set this whole thing up and kept Twilight in the dark about it, just like she kept her in the dark about Nightmare Moon during season one. Discord allowed the mane 6 to use the elements of harmony on him because he knew they wouldn't hurt him at all. The elements of "harmony" aren't a tool to forever entomb people. They're magical implements of friendship and, well...harmony. It's very likely that Discord turned himself to stone simply to maintain the ruse. As a celestial being capable of altering matter at a thought, turning his own body to stone was of no consequence, and he was in no danger.

Similarly, remember that Celestia and Luna aren't merely princess/rulers.



They're also goddesses responsible for the raising of the sun and moon. And while allegedly they both worked together to entrap Discord to save Equestria, not only does Celestia take no action against Discord when he shows up in her throne room, Luna makes no appearance at all in either episode, and apparently does absolutely nothing about him. Why? Because was wasn't worried. She knew it was all set up by him and her sister for Twilight's benefit.

Need more convincing?

Remember that according to Celestia's version of the story given in the first episode, Discord was the ruler of Equestria before she and Luna overthrew him. Overthrew him then encased him in stone for (not specified, but logically it must be at least) a thousand or more years. And once released, he leaves both the two of them alone, makes a  point of not breaking or disrupting anything when he visits. Not so much as a puddle or cotton candy cloud in or around the palace while they all go play in the hedge maze directly outside. The entire palace guard, the entire school of unicorn magic plus academy staff and teachers, both goddesses Celestia and Luna, all right there ready and available to fight him...and nobody makes a move against Discord. Clearly, they were under orders not to interfere, just like Discord makes a point of not creating any nuisances in the palace or around Canterlot, except in their designated playground: the hedgemaze. Why? Because everyone is under orders from Celestia to not interfere with Discord, and since Discord is in on this whole thing together with Celestia, he's making a point of creating minimal disruption. This also explains what would otherwise be a massive contrived coincidence if Celestia's version were true: remember, Discord's statue was in the garden in Canterlot to begin with, and he was allegedly "released" when the Cutie Mark Crusaders get into a fight in front of him. So...if he's just been released from a thousand or more years of imprisonment, and the ponies who did it are in the palace he's right next to...why in the world would the first thing he'd do be to ignore them completely and head off to some random village, Ponyville, and start making cotton candy clouds and chocolate milk rain there...but not do anything near the palace? Immediately after he's "released" they roll the opening credits sequence and then Ponyville is being attacked by cotton candy. But even 15 minutes into the episode later, the palace and the skies above Canterlot are both unharmed, and in every scene where the cast travels between the two, there's no chaos of any kind to be seen.


Hahaha! I shall destroy all of Equestria, except...only the part where Twilight lives.

It makes sense that Discord would go after Ponyville if his real agenda is to do his buddy Celestia a favor and play bad guy for the benefit of Twilight Sparkle. And in episode two when they move from the hedgemaze back to Ponyville, he leaves Celestia in charge at the capitol. Throughout both episodes he never once takes any action at all against Celestia, Luna or Canterlot at all. If Celestia's version of events is true, if she and Luna really overthrew him and encased him in stone for centuries, does it make sense that Discord would leave Canterlot unharmed with those two still in charge?

No. The more reasonable explanation is that Discord and Celestia set this whole thing up together to be a lesson for Celestia's prized pupil, Twilight Sparkle.

[Crazy Cow]

That makes perfect sense. I thought that Discord was pretty lame when he went down without a fight, but your explanation makes the whole thing awesome.

[Jacob/Lee]

Cursed by the ponies, loved by the metas...

[Zangi]

http://www.mlponies.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=179&p=71982#p71982

"Applebuck Season" was originally about "applebumping", i.e. Applejack would harvest apples by ramming trees with her head. (You can see how the script originally had her consciousness deteriorating already, huh?) But Hasbro said, uh, maybe that's not quite the kind of thing we want to be encouraging kids to do, y'know? So they rejiggered the concept into applebucking, which works as a drop-in replacement to the story—making it about sleep deprivation instead. So applebucking ends up both becoming an iconic Applejack "thing", and the story turns out quite a bit more fun than a lesson about repetitive long-term cranial trauma.

Applejack was Derpy's bestest friend before wasn't she?

[TheBronzePickle]

Why do people equate derp-eyes with mental retardation anyway?

I know that Ditzy is canonically, well, ditzy, but at the same time that was mostly a result of people equating the derp-eyes with mental issues.

[Jacob/Lee]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Of course.

[TheBronzePickle]

Thought this was interesting.

Spoiler: Warning, season 2 episode 2 reference (click to show/hide)

[Akhier the Dragon hearted]

Just want to state that Discord was not "evil" nor a "villain". While he was the antagonist he was mostly just trying to have fun and spread a little chaos. Chaos is not evil just like Order is not good. Too much or too little of either is quite bad for you/society but not in and of itself evil. His trying to break up the main characters friendship was mean and probably a bit spiteful but to be fair to him they where trying to imprison him in stone.

[kaijyuu]

He seems to really enjoy breaking people and making them miserable (just look how happy he is when he breaks Twilight), so he's probably a sadist. That right there puts him in the "evil" category for most people.