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Author Topic: Items where steel or the blue stuff isn't necessarily better?  (Read 2468 times)

VerdantSF

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Items where steel or the blue stuff isn't necessarily better?
« on: December 27, 2010, 05:26:12 pm »

Probably the best known example is the silver warhammer, which packs a major punch due to the density of Ag.  However, skimming through some other threads and the wiki, I've noticed some others, like wooden shields working as well as metal ones.  Also, some people have mentioned that wooden and bone bolts work just as well as metal ones these days.  Can anyone confirm these examples?

Alastar

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Re: Items where steel or the blue stuff isn't necessarily better?
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2010, 05:47:19 pm »

The one about bolts is definitely false. Blunt weapons and bolts lack a material that outperforms all others... strength, density and rigidity all matter, but to varying degrees.

Blunt: Density takes over against armour, strength against flesh. All weapon materials useful, silver + small contact area for can openers.
Bolts: Density takes over against flesh, strength against armour, iron is too light already. Bronze, silver and copper are all good, depending on target.
Shields: Not 100% sure how it works. Strength does seem to matter, but dead weight adds up... copper shields can apparently be worse than none against some weapons, haven't had this with featherwood.
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o_O[WTFace]

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Re: Items where steel or the blue stuff isn't necessarily better?
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2010, 07:17:22 am »

For blunt weapons I think all the material properties make a difference, just not really enough to matter.  Its hard to tell the difference between a broken bone and a brokener bone and it takes alot of data to reliably tell the difference between different materials getting stopped by armor 3% of the time vs 2% of the time, or whatever.     

As far as anyone can tell a shield just blocks or doesn't block and material does not effect that.  Now when your soldier decides to hit something with a shield, material will likely matter. 

Our sciencesmiths have a couple of theories about ranged weapon performance.  Heavier metals may perform better because ranged weapons have a value in the raws that determines the maximum projectile velocity.  A light arrow and a heavy arrow will both be going at this maximum velocity, so the heavier arrow will just have more energy behind it.  Alternatively arrows are almost as pointy as the whip (contact area 2, whip is 1), so its possible that just about any metal is sharp/hard/inelastic enough to penetrate armor arbitrarily well.  The only remaining thing that makes a difference is weight (density). 
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VerdantSF

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Re: Items where steel or the blue stuff isn't necessarily better?
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2010, 12:44:44 pm »

As far as anyone can tell a shield just blocks or doesn't block and material does not effect that.  Now when your soldier decides to hit something with a shield, material will likely matter.
Excellent point, I forgot about that!

Musashi

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Re: Items where steel or the blue stuff isn't necessarily better?
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2010, 12:50:31 pm »

On the other hand, doesn't the weight of the equipment affect the speed of the soldiers? So, if you don't intend for your dwarfs to murder things with their shield, wouldn't it be better for them to wear light shields?
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Mechanoid

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Re: Items where steel or the blue stuff isn't necessarily better?
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2010, 01:08:09 pm »

[weight effecting speed]
Like it is in adventure mode, a dwarf that's too burdened or unskilled with their protective armor will be slowed down [by that armor and lack of armor skill] but not by a single shield.
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slothen

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Re: Items where steel or the blue stuff isn't necessarily better?
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2010, 02:06:57 pm »

murdering things with shields is often quite effective, so I would stick wtih steel shields since adamantine is always terrible for blunt attacks.
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Musashi

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Re: Items where steel or the blue stuff isn't necessarily better?
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2010, 02:15:55 pm »

Alright, thanks. Dammit, and I have forged several adamantine shields already...
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slothen

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Re: Items where steel or the blue stuff isn't necessarily better?
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2010, 02:17:43 pm »

Alright, thanks. Dammit, and I have forged several adamantine shields already...

Don't sweat it, they only bash stuff with shields if they don't have or drop a weapon.
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VerdantSF

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Re: Items where steel or the blue stuff isn't necessarily better?
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2010, 02:36:12 pm »

Oh, so silver shields would be good then!

SurfinShroom

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Re: Items where steel or the blue stuff isn't necessarily better?
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2010, 06:08:46 pm »

Hmmm my bone/wooden bolts seem to work, it got my hunters up to legendary in a savage tropical area :S They kill gobbo's too sometimes
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slothen

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Re: Items where steel or the blue stuff isn't necessarily better?
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2010, 07:39:20 pm »

Oh, so silver shields would be good then!

maybe for bashing, but the shield is still primarily for defense, so I would still stick with a strong material like steel.
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Nirreln

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Re: Items where steel or the blue stuff isn't necessarily better?
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2010, 07:47:48 pm »

Far as I can tell the defense of all shields is the same, that is the users skill is all that matters with one expection wood shields can still catch fire.
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Re: Items where steel or the blue stuff isn't necessarily better?
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2010, 11:05:40 pm »

Alright, thanks. Dammit, and I have forged several adamantine shields already...

Don't sweat it, they only bash stuff with shields if they don't have or drop a weapon.


Actually, with the new combat changes, they shield-bash, bite, kick, and punch stuff all the time in addition to their normal weapon attack. It is all based on what attacks have the highest chance of landing.
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Namfuak

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Re: Items where steel or the blue stuff isn't necessarily better?
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2010, 04:55:33 am »

Oh, so silver shields would be good then!

Shields are considered armor, and therefore unable to be made out of silver normally.
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