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Author Topic: Kingmaker Mafia- Season 3! Game over!  (Read 38964 times)

webadict

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Re: Kingmaker Mafia- Season 3! Day 4: Otto went too far
« Reply #330 on: January 23, 2011, 07:31:43 pm »

Huge waste of my awesome role. ;^;
... Not really. Your role is very anti-Town in its current state. Basically, you can't be Kinged after you Super Saint, which would probably hit a Townie anyhow.
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Jim Groovester

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Re: Kingmaker Mafia- Season 3! Day 4: Otto went too far
« Reply #331 on: January 23, 2011, 07:49:54 pm »

I would disagree.

From a Hero mislynch you get two alignment confirmations instead of one, even if the Hero can't be Kinged afterward. That's not a bad deal for a mislynch.
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I understood nothing, contributed nothing, but still got to win, so good game everybody else.

webadict

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Re: Kingmaker Mafia- Season 3! Day 4: Otto went too far
« Reply #332 on: January 23, 2011, 08:12:04 pm »

I would disagree.

From a Hero mislynch you get two alignment confirmations instead of one, even if the Hero can't be Kinged afterward. That's not a bad deal for a mislynch.
It was with the unable to re-King thing. Without that, it might be helpful. But, that also means normal lylo is game over, due to only being able to king scum.
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Toaster

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Re: Kingmaker Mafia- Season 3! Day 4: Otto went too far
« Reply #333 on: January 23, 2011, 09:08:20 pm »

There is little discussion this day.  Mindmaker stands shortly after the group convenes.

“My mind is made up.  Clearly, Jim Groovester is a Villain. Guards!”

Jim is on his feet in an instant.  He whips out a dagger and charges Mindmaker.  “You won’t get me this easily!” he roars.  Mindmaker jumps backwards over his chair, and Jim trips into a wild swing.  The guards overwhelm him as he falls and knock him out.  He is dragged by his feet out into the town square and hung before he can wake back up.

Webadict and Mindmaker have saved the kingdom!  For his work in rooting out the scum, Mindmaker is formally crowned King, and he moves into the castle.  Webadict is gone the day after Jim’s death- presumably to train in the ways of Kingmaker.



Game over- town wins!  Congratulations!


(Mindmaker and Web were both Townpeople as of game start- Web was rolled Kingmaker, somewhat uselessly)
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HMR stands for Hazardous Materials Requisition, not Horrible Massive Ruination, though I can understand how one could get confused.
God help us if we have to agree on pizza toppings at some point. There will be no survivors.

Toaster

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Re: Kingmaker Mafia- Season 3! Day 4: Otto went too far
« Reply #334 on: January 23, 2011, 09:10:05 pm »

Scum Chat:  http://www.quicktopic.com/45/H/jxeMGzzCVftT
Dead Chat:  http://www.quicktopic.com/45/H/ng5dt2LXgBaM

Spoiler: Night 1 (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Night 2 (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Night 3 (click to show/hide)
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HMR stands for Hazardous Materials Requisition, not Horrible Massive Ruination, though I can understand how one could get confused.
God help us if we have to agree on pizza toppings at some point. There will be no survivors.

Toaster

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Re: Kingmaker Mafia- Season 3! Day 4: Otto went too far
« Reply #335 on: January 23, 2011, 09:19:58 pm »

I hope everyone enjoyed that.  It ended up working out fairly well, and I'd be more than happy to run it again.

Ottofar had picked Mindmaker as his secondary N1, not Native, so he seemed to trust him over Native all game.

I do apologize for the rule confusion- I am glad it didn't seriously disrupt the game.  To that end, I think several rule questions came up.

1.  King repetition.  It's certainly gone in its current form.  Should there be any restriction at all, or something simpler like "No kings twice in a row unless there are 5 or fewer people alive?"

2.  Hero role.  How should it be implemented?  I've seen it in several forms, including its current form and one that merely stops the lynch without a supersaint effect. 

3.  Kingmaker combining with other roles.  Obviously, there was no doc this game so it wasn't an issue.  However, what are people's thoughts on this?  I included it to lessen the chances of no eligible kingmaker appearing.  It wasn't clear that the doctor would keep his old role in addition to becoming Kingmaker, as opposed to losing it- he'd submit a King choice as well as a protect action.  What are the views on that one.  In any case, at game start the Kingmaker would be only kingmaker.

4.  Other roles.  What other roles could we see here?  Scum roles?  See above on Kingmaker dual role, but due to its nature this will be a moderately role-light game.

5.  Bigger games?  Third parties?  Any ideas here?


This is easier to host than some games (no vote counts!) so I have zero problem running this again.
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HMR stands for Hazardous Materials Requisition, not Horrible Massive Ruination, though I can understand how one could get confused.
God help us if we have to agree on pizza toppings at some point. There will be no survivors.

Toaster

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Re: Kingmaker Mafia- Season 3! Game over!
« Reply #336 on: January 23, 2011, 09:52:53 pm »

Right, one more.  Currently, if the Kingmaker is NKed, his choice for that night stands.  Does everyone agree with that rule?  Web sent me a king choice on N3, presumably because he figured Ottofar would die.  It didn't make much difference because he still picked Mindmaker anyway.


Also, should I bother assigning a Kingmaker at 3p LYLO?
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HMR stands for Hazardous Materials Requisition, not Horrible Massive Ruination, though I can understand how one could get confused.
God help us if we have to agree on pizza toppings at some point. There will be no survivors.

Jim Groovester

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Re: Kingmaker Mafia- Season 3! Day 4: Otto went too far
« Reply #337 on: January 23, 2011, 09:59:36 pm »

1. I don't think there needs to be any rule that prevents reKinging.

2. Ehhhhh, I don't know. Maybe keep it the way it is, see if it's an issue later?

3. I don't see a problem with this happening.

4/5. I like Kingmaker because it's a simple setup. I don't really see the need for any more roles than the ones already there nor larger games or third parties.

Right, one more.  Currently, if the Kingmaker is NKed, his choice for that night stands.  Does everyone agree with that rule?  Web sent me a king choice on N3, presumably because he figured Ottofar would die.  It didn't make much difference because he still picked Mindmaker anyway.


Also, should I bother assigning a Kingmaker at 3p LYLO?

Yes and yes, respectively. I don't see any problems with keeping these rules the way they are.

I'd be certainly willing to play again, but not anytime soon, since I'm in enough games already.
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webadict

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Re: Kingmaker Mafia- Season 3! Day 4: Otto went too far
« Reply #338 on: January 23, 2011, 10:01:48 pm »

I hope everyone enjoyed that.  It ended up working out fairly well, and I'd be more than happy to run it again.

Ottofar had picked Mindmaker as his secondary N1, not Native, so he seemed to trust him over Native all game.

I do apologize for the rule confusion- I am glad it didn't seriously disrupt the game.  To that end, I think several rule questions came up.
Meh. If I have to bypass the rules, I'll find out how to eventually.

1.  King repetition.  It's certainly gone in its current form.  Should there be any restriction at all, or something simpler like "No kings twice in a row unless there are 5 or fewer people alive?"
Double Kinging isn't too bad at all. I can't really see a problem with it, other than someone might lynch scum and therefore get Kinged again. Of course, this can be abused by the scum as well. I think it hurts both sides to not allow double Kinging, but if you're dead-set against that, you could do no twice in a row unless 5 or less, as that avoids all potential problems.

2.  Hero role.  How should it be implemented?  I've seen it in several forms, including its current form and one that merely stops the lynch without a supersaint effect. 
The problem with this one is that the Hero is confirmed Town, but can't be Kinged, kinda like the Kingmaker. This really only becomes a problem at 3p lylo, where the scum are the only ones that can be Kinged. That's the only problem, and it can't be fixed with allowing the Hero to be Kinged, so what you need to have done is... ? I'm not sure. You could allow both the King and Hero to die if you have more pro-Town power roles. Otherwise, I've got nothing.

3.  Kingmaker combining with other roles.  Obviously, there was no doc this game so it wasn't an issue.  However, what are people's thoughts on this?  I included it to lessen the chances of no eligible kingmaker appearing.  It wasn't clear that the doctor would keep his old role in addition to becoming Kingmaker, as opposed to losing it- he'd submit a King choice as well as a protect action.  What are the views on that one.  In any case, at game start the Kingmaker would be only kingmaker.
I think that Kingmaker SHOULD erase the old role, but it can only happen if there is no eligible Townie. So, if there were a Doctor, Merchant, and Villain left, the Doctor loses his protect, and becomes the Kingmaker. Either that, or just make it so he can't be Kingmaker, so that it CAN turn into a voting game, instead of a Kinging one.

4.  Other roles.  What other roles could we see here?  Scum roles?  See above on Kingmaker dual role, but due to its nature this will be a moderately role-light game.
Ummm... I think that Kingmaker is a nice game with a few roles. I can't advocate for Vigilantes or Cops, unless the Villains are able to counter these somehow.

5.  Bigger games?  Third parties?  Any ideas here?
Bigger games are fine. I think up to 13 might be feasible. I think third parties won't work very well, but I have never seen a Kingmaker with third parties.

This is easier to host than some games (no vote counts!) so I have zero problem running this again.
Go ahead. It was kinda fun, even with some rules mishaps.

Right, one more.  Currently, if the Kingmaker is NKed, his choice for that night stands.  Does everyone agree with that rule?  Web sent me a king choice on N3, presumably because he figured Ottofar would die.  It didn't make much difference because he still picked Mindmaker anyway.


Also, should I bother assigning a Kingmaker at 3p LYLO?
Nope. You can't allow this one. It ruins the whole point of the scum killing the Kingmaker. If the Kingmaker is suspicious of them, then he's able to get a King up with no disruption that isn't them. However, the scum would want to make sure they aren't Kinging people, and someone else is. Hopefully, someone that is more friendly.
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Ottofar

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Re: Kingmaker Mafia- Season 3! Game over!
« Reply #339 on: January 24, 2011, 10:49:26 am »

I mentioned the scum in my PMs once, as I kinged Jim. Otherwise, perfect night game.
I think I'm going to make a new avatar, to celebrate.

Vector

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Re: Kingmaker Mafia- Season 3! Game over!
« Reply #340 on: January 24, 2011, 06:03:37 pm »

I don't know why, but I suddenly want an insane BYOR kingmaker-y thing.

Carry on.
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Zrk2

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Re: Kingmaker Mafia- Season 3! Game over!
« Reply #341 on: January 24, 2011, 06:46:19 pm »

Yeah, go townies!

Can you guys point out some flaws in my townie strategy so I can work on them next time. Jim in particular, as we had quite the spat, what could I have done better?
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Jim Groovester

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Re: Kingmaker Mafia- Season 3! Game over!
« Reply #342 on: January 24, 2011, 07:44:58 pm »

Well, since you asked.

You were lynched because it didn't immediately look like you were interested in finding scum. When you started asking questions, it was too late, and by that point, you had accused me of being scum for being aggressive.

You were legitimately suspicious. Even though I was scum, I would have been perfectly right to suspect you.

From the outset, you need to go find scum. You. Not anybody else. Sitting back and throwing out hypothetical scenarios for other players is not actively finding scum yourself. This is important. Don't rely on anybody else to do it for you, though don't ignore what other people have to say, of course.

What else you need to recognize is that players who do the above are not scummy. Far from it. Players who are active and aggressive in finding scum are town. If they're actually scum, well, they outplayed you, and that's perfectly fine since they earned it.

Most of this game is looking like you're trying to find scum, and then lynching the people who don't. Everything else comes with experience.

So, in future games, you should be active from the start. Ask questions about anything you think is suspicious. Ask questions about anything you think is odd. If you're wrong, people will tell you, and you should listen, but don't let that stop you from asking questions. If you can do that you should pick up the game pretty fast.
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Leafsnail

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Re: Kingmaker Mafia- Season 3! Game over!
« Reply #343 on: January 24, 2011, 07:52:25 pm »

I don't know why, but I suddenly want an insane BYOR kingmaker-y thing.

Carry on.
Man that would get completely crazy pretty fast.  But would probably be fun.
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webadict

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Re: Kingmaker Mafia- Season 3! Game over!
« Reply #344 on: January 24, 2011, 09:35:07 pm »

I don't know why, but I suddenly want an insane BYOR kingmaker-y thing.

Carry on.
I was actually going to make one of those. Stop reading my mind.

Yeah, go townies!

Can you guys point out some flaws in my townie strategy so I can work on them next time. Jim in particular, as we had quite the spat, what could I have done better?
Pretty much what Jim said. Remember, I was town and I was sure that you were scum.

If you look at the things people were saying about you, those are pretty big things to change. Also, look at what was chosen by players as scummy, both scum and town alike.



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