I know it's not that impressive for a WoT, but here's one.
Not really. Yes, process of elimination is great and all, but there's simply more to it than that. There is, in fact, plenty to do before he gets here. At least one of us is Town, and if exactly one of us are Town, that means the King is, in fact, town.
This is a moot point since Mindmaker's here now, but did you really want to have a giant pissing match before we knew whether or not it really matters?
I would have, but I had to go. And yes, because if I were scum, and I knew my partner had been Kinged at lylo, I would've made fun of the Town. I mean, they've already lost. There's no point in dragging it out.
Well let's see:
Jim has been been suspicoious about webadict for a very long time and even though it doesn't look like he's getting satisfying answer he desists from questioning him further?
Why? I mean there's a number of reasons I can think of, but I'd like to hear it from your mouth.
Because the answers were satisfying, to some extent, or I knew I wasn't going to get anything more out of webadict. Gut feelings are fine enough reasons to suspect people, or at least to start with, but they leave little room for further discussion. That's what most of webadict's suspicions this game have been: gut feelings.
Jokerman-EXE: Gut feeling
Pandarsenic: Gut feeling (on Day 1)
Jim Groovester: Gut feeling
NativeForeigner: Gut feeling
There was nothing to question about what he was doing with Pandarsenic on Day 2, and after I got the gut feeling answers for all his other suspicions, there was no point in asking further.
Technically, I simply pointed you out because I wanted you to be wary of me. Had I known I'd be right... Well, that would've been awesome.
And technically, it did work. I'm still alive. The person that could best make a case against both of you. Unfortunately, I'm going to have to deal with Mindmaker probably believing NativeForeigner is more likely Town, despite NativeForeigner not really giving a crap Day 2 onward. Oh disappointing.
Regarding NF:
Seems suprisingly towny to me. But well, I don't have to do all the work.
Jim, Webadict, what does strike you as odd about NF?
He's been very quiet and has actually done very little scumhunting. Day 2 especially, he tried to hide and do nothing.
I can't really disagree with Jim here, but I can be disappointed by his lack of wanting to lynch him. Seriously. You'd think he'd try to pretend he was Town, but he doesn't.
Let me explain, in case you've forgotten: One of me, NativeForeigner, and Jim Groovester is Town. That means the other two are the Mafia. Let's see who they give lackluster attacks to, and who they REALLY want to have lynched.
Regarding NF:
Seems suprisingly towny to me. But well, I don't have to do all the work.
Jim, Webadict, what does strike you as odd about NF?
Also NF, your thoughts regarding a Jim&Webadict scumteam?
I think a Jim&Webadict scumteam would be scary, seeing as they're both very experienced players, but entirely possible since the roles are decided randomly. I don't have much tells on Jim, but seeing as you haven't insta-lynched, that just leaves Jim and Wuba. I would also like to point out that all of Wuba's "gut-feelings" have turned out town. Four of them. No one he suspected was scum because he is scum and he apparently didn't choose to throw his partner into his list of suspects. Probably because he would be questioned for not going after them.
Reason #1 that NativeForeigner should be lynched:
I think a Jim&Webadict scumteam would be scary, seeing as they're both very experienced players, but entirely possible since the roles are decided randomly.
If NativeForeigner were Town, he would KNOW FOR CERTAIN THAT THIS WOULD BE THE SCUMTEAM. IT WOULD BE THE ONLY OPTION! Unfortunately, he really can't give the necessary acting it takes to believe such a thing, as he really only has one goal in mind: Lynch the webadict!
Not only do we get the "possibility" line, which shows how certain he is that I'm scum (He knows Jim's scum), but he even has the guts to pull out a "randomly decided" nonsense. That's right: He's using the worst statistical evidence he can muster! Let's not forget the amount of logical reasoning he provides: It's random!
This is the most passive line I have ever seen, in the most crucial time when he should be trying to lynch the scum.
Reason #2: Why lynch Jim when webadict will do?
I don't have much tells on Jim, but seeing as you haven't insta-lynched, that just leaves Jim and Wuba. I would also like to point out that all of Wuba's "gut-feelings" have turned out town. Four of them. No one he suspected was scum because he is scum and he apparently didn't choose to throw his partner into his list of suspects. Probably because he would be questioned for not going after them.
He has nothing on Jim Groovester, who should obviously be scum according to his own reasoning, but look at me! I'm clearly scum because four (?) people I've suspected were town! (Please note that this is both impossible and incorrect, but slightly
off-topic.)
Oddly enough, if I were scum, and Jim were my partner, wouldn't he ALSO be guilty of "not going after his partner"? NativeForeigner doesn't mention this ONE BIT. NOPE! He's so set on me being lynched he COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY skips over Jim Groovester doing this, and focuses on me doing this. Because apparently, only I can be guilty of these things.
urther.
Regarding NF:
Seems suprisingly towny to me. But well, I don't have to do all the work.
Jim, Webadict, what does strike you as odd about NF?
He's been very quiet and has actually done very little scumhunting. Day 2 especially, he tried to hide and do nothing.
I was more active D1 than D2, yes, but I was somewhat busy during D2. I still made my posts, I confronted Dariush about his actions, questioned Jim about his choice before he made it, and tried to get anything out of Pandar, but I ultimately wasn't very active D2, unfortunately. But I certainly didn't try to hide and do nothing.
You kind of did. You hardly went after me then, hardly went after Pandarsenic, hardly went after Jim Groovester, and hardly did anything but try to take cover. I can point out a few posts for you, if you care to look:
To start the day off, here's what I want to hear from everybody: Your current top two scum picks, and your reasons why.
This includes lazy non-participant Kingmakers.
I'd have to say Dariush because of his previous jumpiness and apparent inability to answer questions coupled with his general lack of effective scumhunting. He choses to complain about other people's tactics rather than apply his own. Webadict is my second choice. Even though he gave a good reasoning for voting Zrk2, he failed to explain why he suspected Jokerman and Pandar. Furthermore, not only did Zrk2 flip town, but Jokerman, one of his suspects, flipped town as well. While it's not a very strong argument, it brings my attention to him but my suspicion towards him is less than that towards Dariush.
I'd like to note Pandarsenic's lack of scumhunting has not been brought up, yet Dariush's has. Dariush also lives in an odd timezone, making it look like he's lurking and avoiding questions, when he's really catching up at the end of each day. Jumpiness would also describe Pandarsenic when I said he was scum with no reasoning at all, who probably will complain about midterms and continue to have less CPP (Content Per Post) than Dariush does, who's at least attempted to give something to the community.
However, I'd still rather he be dead, or at least replaced.
And you're argument for me is... How do I put this to make you sound like like a moron... moronic? I'm your second choice because I lynched town would maybe be an okay answer. Not great, but not horrible. However, because I thought Jokerman-EXE might be scum and him turning up town is stupid. No, think about it: If I felt Dariush, Pandarsenic, and Jokerman-EXE were scum, then if they weren't all scum, I'd be scummy? Well, seeing as there's two scum, I'd like to note the apparent crap in your argument: You conveniently left out Dariush to make that argument sound, because otherwise it makes no sense to begin with. You might as well accuse everyone here for not trusting everyone else but their suspects as scummy.
Please, also note that I was the one after Dariush and has probably supplied you with most of your rhetoric in your argument. I'm the one that pointed out Dariush as not answering questions, and for him failing to go into details. Basically, everything you might be accusing Dariush of can originate to me. But, if you feel I'm scum, how can you trust an argument like that?
Yeah, that's what I thought.
This post GET NO RESPONSE from you. It actually gets a response from Jim Groovester, oddly enough, but that's probably more of an accident than anything else.
You, Native, don't reply to it, but you reference a nearby post while talking about Pandarsenic. I mean, Native, just who did you suspect anyhow? You seem to latch onto other people's arguments and use them as your own. At least Jim tried to make up some arguments for Dariush yesterday (except for the whole FOUR HOURS IS ENOUGH time, plus a whole paragraph's worth of reasoning [I GAVE A WHOLE ESSAY WORTH! AND I WAS CONVINCED! Jim just sat there and tried to pawn off 4 hours worth of time as reasonable]).
So, I will always say it's justified. And it should be, unless you find a very good reason for not doing it.
All it does is giving you a lynching immunity for a day and if you're of any worth to town, it won't hold any longer than that (because of scum).
If you were kingmkaer, would you claim on day 1? And do you believe you would survive the night, if you did?
Also, don't forget your other question.
About your views on Dariush:
Did you just threaten to lynch him because you actually thought he was a bad townie and needed some "motivation"? If not, what made to change your mind on D2?
I reall hope the answer isn't "gut feeling" again...
Hmm... Maybe it's just me, but I'm not sure if I would claim. It depends on the King and the rationale he would give, and I would know that I should claim. Ottofar, however, felt like the Kingmaker should claim, which worked out in the end what with him being Kingmaker.
Do I suspect to survive? Not likely. Scum me wouldn't want confirmed Town me to be alive.
First part, kind of. I was hoping a threat might motivate him to participate more, because I felt other people deserved to be lynched more. What changed my mind was that he did participate more, despite refusing to answer my initial question. I also had a gut feeling it was just really bad play (yeah, yeah, boohoo), and he wasn't lying about being in a different time zone, as he was consistent about when he posted.
Because the answers were satisfying, to some extent, or I knew I wasn't going to get anything more out of webadict. Gut feelings are fine enough reasons to suspect people, or at least to start with, but they leave little room for further discussion. That's what most of webadict's suspicions this game have been: gut feelings.
Jokerman-EXE: Gut feeling
Pandarsenic: Gut feeling (on Day 1)
Jim Groovester: Gut feeling
NativeForeigner: Gut feeling
There was nothing to question about what he was doing with Pandarsenic on Day 2, and after I got the gut feeling answers for all his other suspicions, there was no point in asking further.
I'd agree if it had been one or two, but that's just a tad to many.
Um, to be fair, that's incorrect, but also half of those are, in fact, scum. I was justified in suspecting Pandarsenic and Zrk2, too. Jokerman and Dariush were wrong in the end, but I can't say I was too worried about the first, and I was trying to rectify it with the second.
Oh and penny for you thoughts on this theory:
Well it's known that both you and Webadict are both experienced players. So the gut feeling of such a player, has some weigth.
So it was you, who's been questioning the scumpicks of webadict, until shortly after they turned out to be wrong.
By withdrawing your suspicions, after they flipped town, you admitted that there was nothing wrong with them and the other players decided to trust your superior judgement.
Next day you did the old switch-a-roo, which then worked equally well.
Webadict, feel free to comment on this as well.
CERTAINLY!
I really can't tell whether or not this is blazing sarcasm.
Zrk2, you're painting yourself to be a decent candidate to be executed. Probably the only way to save yourself is to find someone scummier than you, which doesn't seem likely right now. Who are your top scumpicks and why? (Sorry if I already asked this, I forget things over the weekend).
My exact suspects at the time. I first made the case on Zrk2, and was pushing Dariush the entire Day.
I'd have to say Dariush because of his previous jumpiness and apparent inability to answer questions coupled with his general lack of effective scumhunting. He choses to complain about other people's tactics rather than apply his own. Webadict is my second choice. Even though he gave a good reasoning for voting Zrk2, he failed to explain why he suspected Jokerman and Pandar. Furthermore, not only did Zrk2 flip town, but Jokerman, one of his suspects, flipped town as well. While it's not a very strong argument, it brings my attention to him but my suspicion towards him is less than that towards Dariush.
Webadict, now that you're not king, would you mind explaining why you suspected Jokerman and Pandar?
Suddenly, Zrk2 being lynched is a bad thing. He's also incredibly flip-floppy about it the entire time, explaining that it's both bad that I lynched him, but good I gave reasons, despite him suspecting the exact same person, a fact he makes no mention of.
Jim: Before you decide on Dariush, I would like you to please restate your case on him and then provide your two runner ups and why, including why you might be choosing Dariush above them.
Ottofar: Me, of course. But aside from me, I really don't know. Pandar and MindMaker lurk too much and Dariush is probably getting lynched today, so if I had to pick between those three, I'd probably go to a random number generator because they're all equally sucky choices in my opinion. Either that, or I'd go with Pandar because he's the most experienced.
Pandarsenic is also a good idea, one that I made the case for, and Dariush is just one he's latching onto. His Mindmaker one is just the worst case I can see, but he's willing to RANDOMLY CHOOSE ONE OF THOSE THREE. (Also, slight tangent, but he does exactly what he accused me of doing: Avoiding his partner [Hypocrite])
I think a Jim&Webadict scumteam would be scary, seeing as they're both very experienced players, but entirely possible since the roles are decided randomly. I don't have much tells on Jim, but seeing as you haven't insta-lynched, that just leaves Jim and Wuba. I would also like to point out that all of Wuba's "gut-feelings" have turned out town. Four of them. No one he suspected was scum because he is scum and he apparently didn't choose to throw his partner into his list of suspects. Probably because he would be questioned for not going after them.
Please note that Pandarsenic is bad here (He's part of the four: Jokerman-EXE, Dariush, Pandarsenic, and Zrk2, I believe). So, why is that bad? Didn't he ALSO THINK THAT ZRK2, DARIUSH, PANDARSENIC, AND MINDMAKER WERE SCUM? Let's avoid using rationales that you fail to satisfy.
Oh and penny for you thoughts on this theory:
Well it's known that both you and Webadict are both experienced players. So the gut feeling of such a player, has some weigth.
So it was you, who's been questioning the scumpicks of webadict, until shortly after they turned out to be wrong.
By withdrawing your suspicions, after they flipped town, you admitted that there was nothing wrong with them and the other players decided to trust your superior judgement.
Next day you did the old switch-a-roo, which then worked equally well.
Webadict, feel free to comment on this as well.
I don't know what you're saying here. Can you clarify?
I think you're suggesting that I was fine with webadict having crappy suspicions but now I'm suddenly not. Him having gut feelings for crappy suspicions wasn't worth lynching him over when he had one very strong one (Pandarsenic) and was working at it in a reasonable fashion, and Dariush was acting scummier.
Now, obviously, things have changed. Even if he wasn't one of only two choices for being scum, I would still think he was the likeliest candidate. Dropping gut feelings around everywhere isn't sufficient, and then he had a change of heart about Dariush after I decided to execute him, which surprises me because webadict was very nearly ready to lynch him on Day 1, before he decided to have a change of heart about that too.
You mean here, when I started to defend him?
To start the day off, here's what I want to hear from everybody: Your current top two scum picks, and your reasons why.
This includes lazy non-participant Kingmakers.
I'd have to say Dariush because of his previous jumpiness and apparent inability to answer questions coupled with his general lack of effective scumhunting. He choses to complain about other people's tactics rather than apply his own. Webadict is my second choice. Even though he gave a good reasoning for voting Zrk2, he failed to explain why he suspected Jokerman and Pandar. Furthermore, not only did Zrk2 flip town, but Jokerman, one of his suspects, flipped town as well. While it's not a very strong argument, it brings my attention to him but my suspicion towards him is less than that towards Dariush.
I'd like to note Pandarsenic's lack of scumhunting has not been brought up, yet Dariush's has. Dariush also lives in an odd timezone, making it look like he's lurking and avoiding questions, when he's really catching up at the end of each day. Jumpiness would also describe Pandarsenic when I said he was scum with no reasoning at all, who probably will complain about midterms and continue to have less CPP (Content Per Post) than Dariush does, who's at least attempted to give something to the community.
However, I'd still rather he be dead, or at least replaced.
Or do you mean here, when you gave four hours for defense?
If anybody has anything to say, you better say it. I'll make my decision in a couple of hours.
Especially when Dariush doesn't get on until later, a fact he has stated - and I've restated - several times. Which means he didn't really analyze facts, so much as make it seem like he cared about what we had to say by giving an arbitrary time limit that was during a time that is relatively quiet anyhow, and definitely not during a time Dariush would be on to give an opinion against the fact. So, he tried to make the most non-confrontational lynch ever, using a paragraph's worth of reasoning. And I called him out on it afterward.
He was a giant sack of uselessness and passiveness on Day 1, and on Day 2 he's not doing much better. Then he's trying to blend in with everybody else for being wrong about Zrk2, and trying to convince people that he always suspected Zrk2 even though he spent a good majority of his scumhunting on Day 1 trying to build a case on Ottofar, and there's only really post which can be loosely interpreted as him suspecting Zrk2. Then he said he didn't want to be accused of bandwagoning, so he didn't say he suspected Zrk2.
Passive, inconsistent or unclear suspicions, and actively avoiding suspicion.
Not only is this completely unacceptable, but he provides no quotes. He makes no attempt to show that he examined Dariush and found nothing other than that Dariush was scum. HE EVEN WAS FOLLOWING ME. I gave as much insight to my rationale for lynching him as possible, because I wanted everyone to know that I thought it was perfectly acceptable to lynch him. He came up Town. Oh no. Does that make my reasoning flawed? NO! I did all that work to show that I'm not afraid to be looked over, and to provide the most in-depth reasoning possible. And you want to know what? I haven't had anyone point out my reasoning as suspicious in the least!
So, the only thing Jim Groovester and NativeForeigner can point out is that I lynched Town. They've haven't shown my rationale to be flawed at all, and that's the only way it could be considered scummy.
Jim Groovester somehow tries to defend the fact that taking too much time is bad. I feel differently, which is why it took me more than a week to make a decision. His counterpoint to pointing out his bad lynch is this:
You mean the time when you said that blah blah blah? Blah, blah blah. Blah bl'ah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, blah.
Keep thrashing and raging about it if it makes you feel better.
You've had enough time to make whatever point you're trying to make. It's not my problem if poor WUBA can't make a decision or a convincing case in less than a week.
He announced on the weekend that he was going to lynch Monday. Weekends are notoriously quiet, and he knows that. Monday, even though it was a holiday, is incredibly quiet at around noon. That particular Monday might as well count as part of a weekend. He gave four hours to defend, provided no in-depth analysis for his lynch, and defended it by saying, "Shoulda asked for more time," instead of GIVING AN ANALYSIS or doing something else.
Not only that, but I'll note NativeForeigner's last statement of the Day:
So, Ottofar, King me and I will lynch Pandarsenic faster than anything else. It's not even a debate. He deserves nothing.
You've been king already, wuba. He can't king you.
NativeForeigner attempts to use rules abuse to allow himself to be kinged, probably his overall plan by killing one of the remaining un-Kinged Townies. He made no attempt to question Jim at that point (And still fails to go after him for real), and now he's still trying to persuade you to lynch me, since he can't find anything suspicious about Jim (HELLO, HOW ABOUT YESTERDAY'S LYNCH?)
Mindmaker, this decision is mindbogglingly easy, and the fact that you don't see it disturbs me. The whole reason I pointed out the King rule was to make sure the Town could win, which is obviously what NativeForeigner was trying to exploit. Jim Groovester still provides little less than crap reasoning for Dariush, with nothing near anywhere explained except that "I should've said something" while I wasn't there.
Am I really that scummy that you can't see this?