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[NativeForeigner]

Jim: Before you decide on Dariush, I would like you to please restate your case on him and then provide your two runner ups and why, including why you might be choosing Dariush above them.

Ottofar: Me, of course. But aside from me, I really don't know. Pandar and MindMaker lurk too much and Dariush is probably getting lynched today, so if I had to pick between those three, I'd probably go to a random number generator because they're all equally sucky choices in my opinion. Either that, or I'd go with Pandar because he's the most experienced.

[Dariush]

If you did suspect him you never made it clear. This is the only post you made where you it could be interpreted that you suspected Zrk2, but you did not have reasons.

At that time, adding bandwagoning to the list of my 'offences' wasn't at the top of my list of things to do.

How many times must I point out that I wasn't trying for Ottofar?

But you were!

But I wasn't!

I just wanted to look at the situation from all possible sides. Now I see that I was wrong about suspecting him.

How is this not an admission that you were trying to get Ottofar lynched?

I suspected that he lied, because at the time I started questioning him I didn't have any proof to the contrary. And even if you think that I meant that I actually suspected him as scum, that still doesn't mean he was at the top of my list and I wanted to see him hang.

What were you hoping would come out of the night? It strikes me as odd that your scumhunting would depend on who died in the night.

It wouldn't depend on who died, but I hoped the death would rather help.

How? This doesn't make any sense.

Well, if I was NKed that would exclude me from list of suspects, wouldn't it? In truth, I expected to re-view the victim's posts knowing that he is town and think about his interactions with other players. It didn't work.

So, you have information about two players, neither of which came from the questions and both were passive observations. And I am the one who is accused of lack of hunting. *sigh*

Don't sigh at me, mister. Everything I learned came directly from questions I asked. These are not passive observations I'm making when I'm hounding your ass down for information.

Here's what I've learned: webadict isn't quite as full of shit as he previously appeared, but fuck him because it took longer than it should have to get this out. But he's not completely cleared because he's got issues with Pandarsenic but doesn't apparently suspect him, and his scum picks for the today are absolutely atrocious and appear completely arbitrary.

I fail to see the relation of questions to the fact that webadict isn't quite as full of shit as he previously appeared and the fact that his scum picks for the today are absolutely atrocious and appear completely arbitrary.

[Pandarsenic]

If you did suspect him you never made it clear. This is the only post you made where you it could be interpreted that you suspected Zrk2, but you did not have reasons.

At that time, adding bandwagoning to the list of my 'offences' wasn't at the top of my list of things to do.

How many times must I point out that I wasn't trying for Ottofar?

But you were!

But I wasn't!

I just wanted to look at the situation from all possible sides. Now I see that I was wrong about suspecting him.

How is this not an admission that you were trying to get Ottofar lynched?

I suspected that he lied, because at the time I started questioning him I didn't have any proof to the contrary. And even if you think that I meant that I actually suspected him as scum, that still doesn't mean he was at the top of my list and I wanted to see him hang.

What were you hoping would come out of the night? It strikes me as odd that your scumhunting would depend on who died in the night.

It wouldn't depend on who died, but I hoped the death would rather help.

How? This doesn't make any sense.

Well, if I was NKed that would exclude me from list of suspects, wouldn't it? In truth, I expected to re-view the victim's posts knowing that he is town and think about his interactions with other players. It didn't work.

So, you have information about two players, neither of which came from the questions and both were passive observations. And I am the one who is accused of lack of hunting. *sigh*

Don't sigh at me, mister. Everything I learned came directly from questions I asked. These are not passive observations I'm making when I'm hounding your ass down for information.

Here's what I've learned: webadict isn't quite as full of shit as he previously appeared, but fuck him because it took longer than it should have to get this out. But he's not completely cleared because he's got issues with Pandarsenic but doesn't apparently suspect him, and his scum picks for the today are absolutely atrocious and appear completely arbitrary.

I fail to see the relation of questions to the fact that webadict isn't quite as full of shit as he previously appeared and the fact that his scum picks for the today are absolutely atrocious and appear completely arbitrary.

In order:

Not accusing someone because you don't want to look like scum is itself scummy. You just admitted to allowing attempting to avoid suspicion to take priority over pursuing scum.

You pretty much were, unless you'd like to explain what it WAS instead?

You did have proof to the contrary: nobody counterclaimed. An unchallenged KM claim is true. Period. That's just how it works.

Waiting on the nightkill is a poor reason/excuse.

[Jim Groovester]

Pandarsenic already hit up most of these.

If you did suspect him you never made it clear. This is the only post you made where you it could be interpreted that you suspected Zrk2, but you did not have reasons.

At that time, adding bandwagoning to the list of my 'offences' wasn't at the top of my list of things to do.

Gah... but... why...

You are not learning your lesson. You don't avoid suspicion by not doing things people 'getcha' for, you avoid suspicion by scumhunting.

Actively avoiding suspicion is one of the scummiest things you can do.

How is this not an admission that you were trying to get Ottofar lynched?

I suspected that he lied, because at the time I started questioning him I didn't have any proof to the contrary. And even if you think that I meant that I actually suspected him as scum, that still doesn't mean he was at the top of my list and I wanted to see him hang.

I don't really believe that, but whatever.

If Ottofar wasn't at the top of your list, you didn't make clear who was, and it's crap you trying to act like you always suspected Zrk2.

Well, if I was NKed that would exclude me from list of suspects, wouldn't it? In truth, I expected to re-view the victim's posts knowing that he is town and think about his interactions with other players. It didn't work.

Gah... but... why...

Yeah, waiting to be nightkilled is a very effective scumhunting strategy. Good job, dude!

Sometimes the nightkill can be clarifying but it never provides suspicions for you. Waiting for the kill is an extremely passive, and worse, completely ineffective move.

So, you have information about two players, neither of which came from the questions and both were passive observations. And I am the one who is accused of lack of hunting. *sigh*

Don't sigh at me, mister. Everything I learned came directly from questions I asked. These are not passive observations I'm making when I'm hounding your ass down for information.

Here's what I've learned: webadict isn't quite as full of shit as he previously appeared, but fuck him because it took longer than it should have to get this out. But he's not completely cleared because he's got issues with Pandarsenic but doesn't apparently suspect him, and his scum picks for the today are absolutely atrocious and appear completely arbitrary.

I fail to see the relation of questions to the fact that webadict isn't quite as full of shit as he previously appeared and the fact that his scum picks for the today are absolutely atrocious and appear completely arbitrary.

I asked everybody a general question at the beginning of the day. I asked webadict a specific question about his suspicions the previous day.

webadict gave an explanation for his suspicions on Day 1. Gut feelings and intuition I don't really mind, at least for a starting point. He didn't lynch on them so that's fine. Hence, he's not quite as full of shit as he previously appeared, on that issue.

webadict's suspicions for today are Pandarsenic, for doing a running passive-aggressive commentary of the game, NativeForeigner, for ?, and myself, for ?. Hence, his suspicions are absolutely atrocious (this is what I thought when I said it; I take it back a little) and completely arbitrary (I don't take this back, because it seems like he's making a deliberate choice to suspect me).

They are separate issues.

Jim: Before you decide on Dariush, I would like you to please restate your case on him and then provide your two runner ups and why, including why you might be choosing Dariush above them.

He was a giant sack of uselessness and passiveness on Day 1, and on Day 2 he's not doing much better. Then he's trying to blend in with everybody else for being wrong about Zrk2, and trying to convince people that he always suspected Zrk2 even though he spent a good majority of his scumhunting on Day 1 trying to build a case on Ottofar, and there's only really post which can be loosely interpreted as him suspecting Zrk2. Then he said he didn't want to be accused of bandwagoning, so he didn't say he suspected Zrk2.

Passive, inconsistent or unclear suspicions, and actively avoiding suspicion.

[Dariush]

Not accusing someone because you don't want to look like scum is itself scummy. You just admitted to allowing attempting to avoid suspicion to take priority over pursuing scum.

First, I didn't refrain from accusing Zrk2; the only things I could state as my reasons were already said and repeating them would change nothing except bringing more suspicion on me.

You pretty much were, unless you'd like to explain what it WAS instead?

Let's review all things that happened on day one: lots of pointless questions were asked, lots of pointless answers were given, Ottofar claimed being Kingmaker, lots of pointless discussion of aforementioned pointless answers. Pick one thing out of four on which you'll base your questioning.

You did have proof to the contrary: nobody counterclaimed. An unchallenged KM claim is true. Period. That's just how it works.

Did you even read my previous posts? It was an error. A mistake on my part. I admitted it. Or am I going to be hounded for it until my death?

Waiting on the nightkill is a poor reason/excuse.

Of course, it's better to ask more pointless questions to random people. Silly me.

Gah... but... why...

You are not learning your lesson. You don't avoid suspicion by not doing things people 'getcha' for, you avoid suspicion by scumhunting.

Actively avoiding suspicion is one of the scummiest things you can do.

Thus being suspicious is one of the towniest things.
At the end of D1 it was either Zrk2 (whom I suspected) or me, and my death won't bring anything useful to town. At that point, the only thing I could have changed was bring myself under gallows instead of Zrk2.

I don't really believe that, but whatever.

If Ottofar wasn't at the top of your list, you didn't make clear who was, and it's crap you trying to act like you always suspected Zrk2.

I'm not you; I don't hound people for their randomvote reasons from first minute of day one. I didn't always suspect him, and for most part of D1 my list was clear.

Gah... but... why...

Yeah, waiting to be nightkilled is a very effective scumhunting strategy. Good job, dude!

First part of my post was sarcasm, y'know...

Sometimes the nightkill can be clarifying but it never provides suspicions for you. Waiting for the kill is an extremely passive, and worse, completely ineffective move.

There's a hundred things the nightkill can change. Don't be so absolute in your statements.

I asked everybody a general question at the beginning of the day. I asked webadict a specific question about his suspicions the previous day.

webadict gave an explanation for his suspicions on Day 1. Gut feelings and intuition I don't really mind, at least for a starting point. He didn't lynch on them so that's fine. Hence, he's not quite as full of shit as he previously appeared, on that issue.

webadict's suspicions for today are Pandarsenic, for doing a running passive-aggressive commentary of the game, NativeForeigner, for ?, and myself, for ?. Hence, his suspicions are absolutely atrocious (this is what I thought when I said it; I take it back a little) and completely arbitrary (I don't take this back, because it seems like he's making a deliberate choice to suspect me).

They are separate issues.

On day one you asked those general questions, which were of no use. There was no ground for asking specific ones, yet I was accused for not asking either. That's what I meant from the start.

He was a giant sack of uselessness and passiveness on Day 1, and on Day 2 he's not doing much better. Then he's trying to blend in with everybody else for being wrong about Zrk2, and trying to convince people that he always suspected Zrk2 even though he spent a good majority of his scumhunting on Day 1 trying to build a case on Ottofar, and there's only really post which can be loosely interpreted as him suspecting Zrk2. Then he said he didn't want to be accused of bandwagoning, so he didn't say he suspected Zrk2.

Thanks for a nice short summary of every way you twisted my words. I did not try to blend with anyone, because I was sure of his guilt until the end. I did not say I always suspected Zrk2. I did not try to build a case on Ottofar. I didn't say I suspected Zrk2 because it couldn't change anything in any positive way, not because I didn't want to be accused of bandwagoning. I thought I will be accused if I copied the reasons other people said about him, because there weren't any others.

[Mindmaker]

Not how this works. I want your immediate suspicions because I think they would be revealing. Funny how you didn't bring those out.

So, come on. Let's hear 'em.

That would be Pandar, for rather launching personal attacks against webadict, instead of actually bringing some arguments and Dariush, who spend most of day 2 complaining about how unfairly treated he has been.

Number 3 would be webadict (he was in the top 2, at the time you asked your question), since there are still some unanswered question, but he's on the mend.

Of course, it's better to ask more pointless questions to random people. Silly me.

Sure, just randomly pick someone and instalynch on day 1.
True, the chances to actually lynch scum would be higher, but you wouldn't have anything to follow up that lynch.

Really, how in your opinion should this game be played?

[Pandarsenic]

Not how this works. I want your immediate suspicions because I think they would be revealing. Funny how you didn't bring those out.

So, come on. Let's hear 'em.

That would be Pandar, for rather launching personal attacks against webadict, instead of actually bringing some arguments

Quotes or it didn't happen.

[webadict]

Not how this works. I want your immediate suspicions because I think they would be revealing. Funny how you didn't bring those out.

So, come on. Let's hear 'em.

That would be Pandar, for rather launching personal attacks against webadict, instead of actually bringing some arguments

Quotes or it didn't happen.

Double standard, hypocrite.

Actually, a thought occurs:

Webadict, are you intentionally acting like a King of the Mafia to see who calls you out on it?

I mean, if you can sit back and make posts like these every day, what right do you have to ask for evidence? And this is only one of your posts that shows your almighty prowess in hypocrisy.

Because, I have seen you do about 2 posts worth of actual game-playing. And all of that is horrendous.

@Jim Groovester: If you're Town, and you mislynch today, Town loses. Just saying, don't miss. And yes, that's true.

[Jim Groovester]

That would be Pandar, for rather launching personal attacks against webadict, instead of actually bringing some arguments and Dariush, who spend most of day 2 complaining about how unfairly treated he has been.

Number 3 would be webadict (he was in the top 2, at the time you asked your question), since there are still some unanswered question, but he's on the mend.

Why didn't you give me these in your first post for the day, when I asked for it?

@Jim Groovester: If you're Town, and you mislynch today, Town loses. Just saying, don't miss. And yes, that's true.

Yeah, I know. But I'm not going to spend my time wringing my hands together worrying if I'm right or not.

[Mindmaker]

Why didn't you give me these in your first post for the day, when I asked for it?

Because what Pandar would say would have major impact on my decision and it would have been hard to pick 2, when you have 3 equally qualified subjects.
I'm sorry for making you wait.

[Jim Groovester]

If anybody has anything to say, you better say it. I'll make my decision in a couple of hours.

[Jim Groovester]

Four hours is enough time, I think.

Execute Dariush.

[webadict]

I think Dariush is Town, and I enjoy the lack of explanation used. I mean, hey, I listed everything possible, JUST IN CASE it might have brought out something or made me change my mind.

So, Ottofar, don't mess it up tomorrow. I don't want to force you to King me, but seriously, if it's not me, you pretty much have to King the only other Town person alive.

[Pandarsenic]

Not how this works. I want your immediate suspicions because I think they would be revealing. Funny how you didn't bring those out.

So, come on. Let's hear 'em.

That would be Pandar, for rather launching personal attacks against webadict, instead of actually bringing some arguments

Quotes or it didn't happen.

Double standard, hypocrite.

Actually, a thought occurs:

Webadict, are you intentionally acting like a King of the Mafia to see who calls you out on it?

I mean, if you can sit back and make posts like these every day, what right do you have to ask for evidence? And this is only one of your posts that shows your almighty prowess in hypocrisy.

Because, I have seen you do about 2 posts worth of actual game-playing. And all of that is horrendous.

@Jim Groovester: If you're Town, and you mislynch today, Town loses. Just saying, don't miss. And yes, that's true.

I think Dariush is Town, and I enjoy the lack of explanation used. I mean, hey, I listed everything possible, JUST IN CASE it might have brought out something or made me change my mind.

So, Ottofar, don't mess it up tomorrow. I don't want to force you to King me, but seriously, if it's not me, you pretty much have to King the only other Town person alive.

lolwat

[Jim Groovester]

I think Dariush is Town, and I enjoy the lack of explanation used. I mean, hey, I listed everything possible, JUST IN CASE it might have brought out something or made me change my mind.

Are you an idiot?

I'm getting pretty close to making a decision and I'm thinking it's going to be Dariush.

Jim: Before you decide on Dariush, I would like you to please restate your case on him and then provide your two runner ups and why, including why you might be choosing Dariush above them.

He was a giant sack of uselessness and passiveness on Day 1, and on Day 2 he's not doing much better. Then he's trying to blend in with everybody else for being wrong about Zrk2, and trying to convince people that he always suspected Zrk2 even though he spent a good majority of his scumhunting on Day 1 trying to build a case on Ottofar, and there's only really post which can be loosely interpreted as him suspecting Zrk2. Then he said he didn't want to be accused of bandwagoning, so he didn't say he suspected Zrk2.

Passive, inconsistent or unclear suspicions, and actively avoiding suspicion.

It should be no surprise at all that this is my decision.