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[Neonivek]

Ehh unlike most people here I am not a big fan of these changes...

"Witch - Liberal with average stats, high charisma (witch accusations were often made out of jealousy), start with Witchcraft crime flag."
-Why would Conservatism bring about more Witches? It doesn't make sense on many levels but I'll save the speach for if people care. Mostly though I don't think simply turning the world into some sort of anti-historical backdrop is a good way to do the satire/parody because it is just sort of lazy.

"Witch Hunter - Difficulty about SWAT-level. Armed, evil conservatives. Will invade safehouses that protect witchcrafters."
-While I like the idea of a Witch Hunter being a being someone who hunts down Liberals through blind accusations (Yay lack of freedom of speach)... If there are witches uhhh... no.

"Crusader - Found loitering about randomly, or accompanying safehouse raids. The Christian equivalent to soldiers."
-My problem is that this is something America has no control over and what is a Crusader doing in super religious America? It COULD make sense if Crusader was just the title to a sort of elite unit that requires Religious issues to be double conservative... but otherwise...

"Monk - May be of any alignment. Master of martial arts. Sticks around but gets rare as society gets more liberal."
-Your thinking of Shao-Lin Monks, as there are plenty of monks that exist now who know not martial arts, and they would exist more as the country gets more Liberal because it means both foreign law has been relaxed and that there is less money going into crime fighting.

women's rights

Oddly enough everything was used to put women down including science.

[KaguroDraven]

Many crusaders where Monks who took up the sword, many of the crusader knight orders where originally made up of only monks infact. Perhaps blend and mix the ideas? Monks are arch-conservitive highly religious super melee soldiers with swords?

[Neonivek]

many of the crusader knight orders where originally made up of only monks infact

Crusader knights being monks? Are you sure? This is ignoring Monks who are also Nobles and Monks who got seats, of course.

I know the Knight Templar and the Knights of George weren't. Neither were the Tuetonic Order.

The Hospliter knights?

Anyhow it hardly matters because it just creates a (a)historical backdrop.

But still the Monks you that are being refered to are still the Shaolin Monks... I doubt anyone is going to think of anything other then them.

What you CAN do is give Monks a chance of being martial art experts. Then it stops being an odd reference and more of a easteregg/bonus. Though you would need a Nun and give them the exact same chance.

[Zangi]

Ehh unlike most people here I am not a big fan of these changes...

"Witch - Liberal with average stats, high charisma (witch accusations were often made out of jealousy), start with Witchcraft crime flag."
-Why would Conservatism bring about more Witches? It doesn't make sense on many levels but I'll save the speach for if people care. Mostly though I don't think simply turning the world into some sort of anti-historical backdrop is a good way to do the satire/parody because it is just sort of lazy.

On a technicality... there will be more witches cause more people will be accused as such... coupled with less fact-finding of course.

[Neonivek]

there will be more witches cause more people will be accused as such

I am guessing he doesn't mean real witches.

Though I'd expect Heretic and Heresy to be added as crimes before Witchcraft.

Which actually would be one thing I'd add next to the game. Religious crimes. Afterall the Liberal Nightmare is that Church becomes to involved that they themselves are a legal power and able to thrust authority onto its citizens along with a moral code.

[Kay12]

Ehh unlike most people here I am not a big fan of these changes...

"Witch - Liberal with average stats, high charisma (witch accusations were often made out of jealousy), start with Witchcraft crime flag."
-Why would Conservatism bring about more Witches? It doesn't make sense on many levels but I'll save the speach for if people care. Mostly though I don't think simply turning the world into some sort of anti-historical backdrop is a good way to do the satire/parody because it is just sort of lazy.

"Witch Hunter - Difficulty about SWAT-level. Armed, evil conservatives. Will invade safehouses that protect witchcrafters."
-While I like the idea of a Witch Hunter being a being someone who hunts down Liberals through blind accusations (Yay lack of freedom of speach)... If there are witches uhhh... no.

"Crusader - Found loitering about randomly, or accompanying safehouse raids. The Christian equivalent to soldiers."
-My problem is that this is something America has no control over and what is a Crusader doing in super religious America? It COULD make sense if Crusader was just the title to a sort of elite unit that requires Religious issues to be double conservative... but otherwise...

"Monk - May be of any alignment. Master of martial arts. Sticks around but gets rare as society gets more liberal."
-Your thinking of Shao-Lin Monks, as there are plenty of monks that exist now who know not martial arts, and they would exist more as the country gets more Liberal because it means both foreign law has been relaxed and that there is less money going into crime fighting.

women's rights

Oddly enough everything was used to put women down including science.

Witches don't mean real witches, but rather people accused as such. That's why they don't have magic powers, you know. Witch Hunters are simply evil conservative bounty hunters or fanatics. Crusaders are satire, similar to talking liberal animals, and monks knowing martial arts is, for some odd reason, so common in RPGs that it, too, deserves to be poked fun of.

[Neonivek]

Crusaders are satire, similar to talking liberal animals

I am aware they are satire (Though more like a parody since no one I speak to actually knows what the Crusades were about beyond a 1st grade answer). It is just rather annoying to see them and it is too much of a blunt edged sword.

monks knowing martial arts is, for some odd reason, so common in RPGs that it, too, deserves to be poked fun of.

A Monk knowing martial arts is one thing and interesting. A entire job devoted to martial art Monks that require Conservatism is too much. In otherwords Interesting idea bad execution.

Witches don't mean real witches, but rather people accused as such

Then it would be a crime that would need to be dolled out by someone.

Historically Witchcraft accusations were more or less used as methods to engage in class or political warfare. Despite the view of Witchcraft as a Church driven activity it actually has less to do with the Church, who often fought against belief in Witchcraft because that is heresy but often got swept up into it because of popular oppinion (The church can be swayed by the people). I can relax that however and say that "Witchcraft" as a "We don't have anything on you" crime and that can be used against certain members depending on the political climate is something.

So I guess suffice it to say. I don't like most of his suggestions based on my perception that it takes religion, something I constantly hear trashed on a daily basis, and applies the same old junk to it and frankly while I am not beyond it being satired or parodied I'd like it to at least be relevant and well done because I am tired of seeing it. (Though that is just my view on Crusader).

That and some I don't like that much and it just transforms the game into a historical backdrop when it is really going for distopia then historia. Also that while I do agree that Religion changes do very little compared to what they could, I am not sure I'd like changes in this dirrection.

C++ Religion to me represents the Church, as a moral authority, having more power then it really should to the point where it gets its own Federally funded units, its own police force and army, as well as the legal authority to levy charges against people for lack of following religious dogma and moral codes creating an oppressive regime. Rather then simply representing an image of the Dark ages with all its crazy wacky antics.
-It would be interesting if in C++ Religion that Bishops, Cardinals, and maybe even the Pope can start holding legal office or even pernament offices.

And with that I have officially commited "Debate suicide" and in all likelyness because I shown bias, will not be taken seriously.

[Kay12]

LCS goes into extremes beyond the reasonable political spectrum in many issues. I doubt there are many animal rights activists who would give animals the right to vote or many death penalty supporters who would put people to death for anything. That's exactly why, in my opinion, crusaders fit in perfectly well. When the society is religious enough, the Church is given the control of it's own paramilitary force. Of course, these aren't literally crusaders, as the only crusade they're on is the crusade against atheism, pro-choice movement and homosexuality. Basically they would be the religious equivalent to corporate mercenaries and government soldiers.

You're right about the witches though, and perhaps heresy would be a better term than witchcraft. However, only in C+ religious societies witchcraft accusations are taken seriously, so it's only natural that witches appear only then. Basically, a witch is a political enemy that is persecuted by making up a case of witchcraft. I still stick by the idea that being seen while using LARP gear could count as witchcraft. Why? See the Chick Tract "Dark Dungeons". Those booklets are my primary inspiration for my C+ religious ideas. And, in the true LCS fashion, we have to go a little bit further than conservatives wanting to ban Harry Potter and D&D - their fans must be persecuted accordingly.

LCS is not only satire of the conservative agenda, so L+ can also be a horrible extreme, such as the negative freedom of belief as in the Soviet Union.

[RedWarrior0]

I do like the idea of lumping witchcraft charges against activists who can't get any other crimes against them. Like, if you have 500 Juice and no crimes, they start accusing you of witchcraft.

[Neonivek]

The Crusader and Witchhunter sounds a lot more like a much more fiendish job: An Inquisitor

Assuming I know what an Inquisitor is.

[Kay12]

Sounds pretty good to me, as they would be pretty similar in any case.