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[Ioric Kittencuddler]

And then the Nehrim thread became the Ioric Still Hates Oblivion Thread.

It wouldn't have if people would have just answered by question rather than trying to argue with me.   I don't come into threads just to comment about your unreasonable love of large corporations.

[Cthulhu]

That's because that's something you made up, man.

And what I said was relevant.  Every time you open your mouth it's about how such and such game is terrible.  Even when you're complimenting games you do it by comparing them to games you hate.

[SalmonGod]

I'm sure there are other ways to have completed the quest, but what was notable to me was that I didn't make use of any weapons or skills or anything to complete it the way I did. 

And yes, it was a rare gem of a moment, and I ultimately agree with you Ioric.  Unfortunately, that's just the state of PC games right now.  A genuine role-playing experience is really really difficult to accomplish, and just having a couple moments such as that one is enough to make a game notable in that respect.

It's possible to make rpgs more about actual role-playing, but the amount of effort required increases exponentially to the point that it's not wise from a business standpoint.  This can be alleviated somewhat if game development is approached from a procedural-generate-EVERYTHING philosophy, much like what Dwarf Fortress is doing, but even this is much more work than your typical AAA title.  Especially if you consider how graphic commercial games are expected to be.  The more possibilities in the game, the more production labor must go into graphically and audibly representing everything that can possibly happen.

This just isn't going to change in commercial titles until either technology or business models improve drastically.

I actually didn't like Oblivion all that much, to be honest.  I felt its controls were near-unplayably clumsy, and its character building mechanics encouraged you to do really ridiculous things (like jumping constantly everywhere you go to train jumping skill  ).  I didn't come close to finishing it, and actually never even bought it.  I borrowed it from someone.

I'm interested in trying some mods for it, though, now that it's had some time to age.

[Akura]

Sooo, torrenting Nehrim. 1.6GB, average speed ~40kbs, going around 60kbs when nothing else is taking bandwidth.

This is gonna take awhile...

[fenrif]

You keep saying that all you can do is "playing a murdering psychopath," which is where I got the whole "going around murdering everyone" thing. I guess I must've just pulled that one out of thin air.

Also consider this, in even the most freeform of pen and paper RPG games any good DM will limit you in what characters you can play. You can't join a good-allaigned D&D game and play an evil cleric who wants to sacrifice innocents to their dark god, and you can't play a political heavy space opera and expect your DM to let you play guffins the whimsical ewok wizard. Certainly not without sitting down with the DM and working out how it could work into the campaign. Similarily in games you're accepting that you're going to have to play within a pre-defined role. Oblivion gives you more freedom than most, but you still are going to need to fight some things. That doesn't mean there's no roleplaying at all, of any kind.

Though it seems you have a different definition of roleplaying than me, because the whole "the world must react to everything you can imagine" thing is something new. Obviously the world reacts to you and gives you feedback on your actions, or it wouldn't be a game, it'd be a movie.

I'm not saying Oblivion is the pinnacle be-all-end-all of the genre, but to say theres no roleplaying other than killing things is just silly.

[Ioric Kittencuddler]

That's because that's something you made up, man.

And what I said was relevant.  Every time you open your mouth it's about how such and such game is terrible.  Even when you're complimenting games you do it by comparing them to games you hate.

Either I made it up or you're in denial.  Either way I doubt it's worth arguing abut here.

I'm sorry that you think being critical of something is a character flaw.  But I don't really feel like arguing with you about it.  Also, why wouldn't I still hate Oblivion?  I mean, it's not like something has changed to make it significantly different from the game I hate.  Unless these Total Conversions did it... which is exactly why I was asking about them in the first place.

I'm sure there are other ways to have completed the quest, but what was notable to me was that I didn't make use of any weapons or skills or anything to complete it the way I did. 

And yes, it was a rare gem of a moment, and I ultimately agree with you Ioric.  Unfortunately, that's just the state of PC games right now.  A genuine role-playing experience is really really difficult to accomplish, and just having a couple moments such as that one is enough to make a game notable in that respect.

It's possible to make rpgs more about actual role-playing, but the amount of effort required increases exponentially to the point that it's not wise from a business standpoint.  This can be alleviated somewhat if game development is approached from a procedural-generate-EVERYTHING philosophy, much like what Dwarf Fortress is doing, but even this is much more work than your typical AAA title.  Especially if you consider how graphic commercial games are expected to be.  The more possibilities in the game, the more production labor must go into graphically and audibly representing everything that can possibly happen.

This just isn't going to change in commercial titles until either technology or business models improve drastically.

I actually didn't like Oblivion all that much, to be honest.  I felt its controls were near-unplayably clumsy, and its character building mechanics encouraged you to do really ridiculous things (like jumping constantly everywhere you go to train jumping skill  ).  I didn't come close to finishing it, and actually never even bought it.  I borrowed it from someone.

I'm interested in trying some mods for it, though, now that it's had some time to age.

I would probably hate Oblivion less if I hadn't finished it, but for some reason I still don't fully understand.  The liked the ending wasn't really worth it, but at least it had one of the only cool cutscenes in the entire game.  Oh yeah, and the sidequest that ends with flaming dogs raining from the sky seems like it was snuck in there by someone who wasn't on the dev team because 1) Unlike basically all the other missions in the game the compass didn't point you to each individual step in solving the quest, and 2) it was awesome.

You keep saying that all you can do is "playing a murdering psychopath," which is where I got the whole "going around murdering everyone" thing. I guess I must've just pulled that one out of thin air.

Also consider this, in even the most freeform of pen and paper RPG games any good DM will limit you in what characters you can play. You can't join a good-allaigned D&D game and play an evil cleric who wants to sacrifice innocents to their dark god, and you can't play a political heavy space opera and expect your DM to let you play guffins the whimsical ewok wizard. Certainly not without sitting down with the DM and working out how it could work into the campaign. Similarily in games you're accepting that you're going to have to play within a pre-defined role. Oblivion gives you more freedom than most, but you still are going to need to fight some things. That doesn't mean there's no roleplaying at all, of any kind.

Though it seems you have a different definition of roleplaying than me, because the whole "the world must react to everything you can imagine" thing is something new. Obviously the world reacts to you and gives you feedback on your actions, or it wouldn't be a game, it'd be a movie.

I'm not saying Oblivion is the pinnacle be-all-end-all of the genre, but to say theres no roleplaying other than killing things is just silly.

No you just didn't read my post carefully and misinterpreted most of what I said.  But I have to leave now so if you'd just go back and read again a little more carefully before posting I'd appreciate it. 

You keep acting like Oblivion's main focus of gameplay isn't killing things.  It is.  Killing things is the primary gameplay of the game, not just a part of it.  It's the main game.  And there's no real meaningful choices to go along with it.  Since I don't have a lot of time I'm just going to say this.  In any decent PnP game you'll have meaningful choices and those choices will have fitting consequences.  In Oblivion that is not the case.

But anyway.  Can anyone tell me about Nehrim?

[freeformschooler]

Stop arguing about who's stupid for not liking that a finished game doesn't have a core element and who's stupid for calling them stupid. You all make yourself sound stupid. It's a game!

Nehrim looks pretty cool but unfortunately the only computer I had access to that could have played Oblivion when I had Oblivion doesn't belong to me anymore. The others look pretty good too, but it really stands out.

[Jervous]

Wow! Total Conversion mods too!

Oblivion is the greatest game, ever made, ever, ever, and nothing can beat it. Nothing. Ever. Best game. Not even a game. A way of life. Oblivion is the greatest thing ever concieved, ever. The sole purpose you exist is to play Oblivion. Don't believe me? Then you aren't living.


But seriously is that Nehrim mod actually in english? Completely?

[dennislp3]

No. the spoken word in the game is still german (there is english subtitles) but everything else is in english. I am playing it now and its not a half ass translation job or anything. So its easily played and understood in english.

As for the whole debacle on the role playing thing. Oblivion does hit it pretty good with guilds. You can join a guild (fighters, mage, thief, assassins, and a few others as well as added ones through mods) that allow you to climb the ranks and all.


I am a bit irritated though because as of right now I cant kill anything...hard to kill even rats. I am guessing the damage model is exponential (eg at the start you cant do shit for damage then you hit a point where you do tons all of sudden).

I still prefer OOO in some aspects but I am still early in the game. The environments though...holy shit...in Nehrim forests look like forests...not half ass tree every 10 feet shit....its more like the entire countryside is covered in trees and its much more immersive.

[dennislp3]

Sooo, torrenting Nehrim. 1.6GB, average speed ~40kbs, going around 60kbs when nothing else is taking bandwidth.

This is gonna take awhile...

What do you have for internet? hope you aren't paying much...when I torrented it I was going at 1300 Kb/s for a good portion of it.

[dennislp3]

I just wanted to be an ass and triple post for the hell of it. Also wanted to make a point that I am mostly waiting for FCOM...anyone played FCOM 9.9? I was thinking about trying it but I dont know if I want to do the hassle of the complicated install (whenever version 1 shows up its sposed to be easy).

Does Nehrim use a custom (Nehrim team made) crafting system or is it ported into Nehrim....its expansive and immersive (IE you need hammer and tongs and anvils shit...not just mix a + b in this special box and it will produce C...I hate those workaround crafting systems)

[buckets]

I'm pretty interested in Nehrim, but how hard is the combat? I'm kinda getting the impression that it's crazy hard, and I'm not too keen on being frustrated the whole time.

[ThreeToe]

Ioric Kittencuddler, I understand you don't like this game, but you are catching complaints.  Please stop.

[ghosteh]

FCOM is total shit, don't bother with it. It's anything but converged, the instructions are outdated and you have to download and install about 20 things separately to get it to work, and even then marts monster mod causes it to crash every five minutes.

[Ioric Kittencuddler]

Ioric Kittencuddler, I understand you don't like this game, but you are catching complaints.  Please stop.

So sayeth the ThreeToed groundchuck, so shall it be.  But what exactly are the complaints about?