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[Virex]

Hold on a second, no state welfare doesn't means no ER. It just means people who use the ER will have to recoup the cost. In this case I'd be stuck with a pretty hefty loan, so I'd probably have to put my education on a hold for some time/permanently though. If that's the chance I have to take to take the burden of asocial health care away from society, then so be it, I'll take the chance and I should be free to do so.

[DJ]

Fine, you automatically get a loan for ER. But then complications arise after your surgery, and you can't afford further treatment. No bank will grant you a loan since you're too sick to work and you have loans to repay already. You die of necrosis. Game over, try again (Y/N)?

[Nikov]

Hey look, its a thread full of DJ trolling Virex. Good job DJ. Way to raise the bar. We've gone from accusing people of photoshopping charts to out-and-out lying through our teeth to make a point. The next stop is dancing around until someone calls a name severe enough to get the thread locked, and its off to a new thread.

[Glowcat]

Fine, you automatically get a loan for ER. But then complications arise after your surgery, and you can't afford further treatment because no bank will grant you a loan since you're too sick to work and you have loans to repay already. You die of necrosis. Game over, try again (Y/N)?

Or you can't get a job because without an education nobody wants you for anything at a living wage or above.

[DJ]

Shooting holes in theories != trolling

And you know, he could've stopped it from escalating to this ridiculous levels if he simply disagreed with what I said he wanted. TBH I was kinda surprised when my strawman turned out to be real.

[Virex]

Assuming I can't get help from friends and family you mean? Banks aren't the only guys with money and the loan doesn't have to be on my name. But yeah, assuming both my parents are death, I am in a strange town, all my friends have left me, I get mortally shot and the bank doesn't want to grant me a loan for surgery, I'd die. Sucks to be the guy who gets rid of all his friends, no?

[Nikov]

Well you should've told me so sooner, I could've solved my country's 40% unemployment problem ages ago! Let's feed the third world for en core while we're at it.

Maybe just really, really sarcastic then.

[DJ]

Would you give away majority of your savings in a world without safety nets? What will they do if they give you their money and then they get sick?

So sarcasm is trolling now? What other forms of speech must I avoid?

[Virex]

Your friends and family are your safety net. If you don't help them out, you're tossing away your own safety nets so you can't fall back on them if needed. I find such a system of personal relations to be much more trustworthy and less constricting then having to rely on a fickle government that'll stop paying for treatments just because the reserve for that treatment ran out. Plus if the government isn't stealing 75% of your income (income tax + property tax + vat + a lot of other taxes, crude estimation), you've got more to spare in case a close one needs help.


Also, newsflash: If there's an epidemic, people die. Happens now as well.

[Glowcat]

Assuming I can't get help from friends and family you mean? Banks aren't the only guys with money and the loan doesn't have to be on my name. But yeah, assuming both my parents are dead, I am in a strange town, all my friends have left me, I get mortally shot and the bank doesn't want to grant me a loan for surgery, I'd die. Sucks to be the guy who gets rid of all his friends, no?

How fortunate that you not only have family and friends with enough money to support you, but also willing to do it despite you obviously being a deadbeat who can't support himself. Sucks for those coming from the lower classes though.

[DJ]

Well it's not like blue collar workers are actual people.

[Gantolandon]

Hold on a second, no state welfare doesn't means no ER. It just means people who use the ER will have to recoup the cost. In this case I'd be stuck with a pretty hefty loan, so I'd probably have to put my education on a hold for some time/permanently though. If that's the chance I have to take to take the burden of asocial health care away from society, then so be it, I'll take the chance and I should be free to do so.

Hell yeah! In the perfect libertarian society, living through being shot should totally ruin the survivor's career. He really should have dodged this bullet.

Your friends and family are your safety net.

Unless they are poor. Perfect libertarian society doesn't take kindly of those not wise enough to be born in a rich family.

Plus if the government isn't stealing 75% of your income (income tax + property tax + vat + a lot of other taxes, crude estimation), you've got more to spare in case a close one needs help.

I'd like to remind you that in this perfect libertarian world you would have to work harder for less money.

[Virex]

I don't get why you automatically assume that health care has to be expensive, while that is mostly a product of having mandatory health care, cartels, no incentive to drop prices and a continuing push for more expensive and less effective medicines from the pharmaceutical companies.


Also, why would there be an income drop in such a society?

[Leafsnail]

nothing its just the southwestern states realized that people should be able to protect themselves on their property without repurcussions. Good old Colorado's Make my Day law.

Still seems like an easy way to get away with murder to me.

Hey look, its a thread full of DJ trolling Virex. Good job DJ. Way to raise the bar. We've gone from accusing people of photoshopping charts to out-and-out lying through our teeth to make a point. The next stop is dancing around until someone calls a name severe enough to get the thread locked, and its off to a new thread.

Nikov, I will ask you again - link to your source.  If you read my post, you will realise it's not an accusation, but an "Am I to believe?".   Implicit in this construction is "Or...?"

But I know you prefer to walk off in a huff whenever an exchange doesn't go your way.

I don't get why you automatically assume that health care has to be expensive, while that is mostly a product of having mandatory health care, cartels, no incentive to drop prices and a continuing push for more expensive and less effective medicines from the pharmaceutical companies.

And a complete laissez-faire government would use its zero power and influence to stop this?

[Virex]

You don't need a government to stop that. People can do a lot more then they think, but again, they expect the government to solve their problems instead of choosing the cheapest provider and addressing cartels. Laisez-faire governments do enforce the law (and since that's pretty much all they do they're expected to do it more effectively then the laughable excuse for a "police" we have now), and cartels will still be illegal.