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[DJ]

I kinda like this whole "blame the victim" philosophy, I think I'm gonna apply it to theft, murder and rape.

[Leafsnail]

I kinda like this whole "blame the victim" philosophy, I think I'm gonna apply it to theft, murder and rape.

Dude, I don't think there's any limit to how far Virex is prepared to take this madness.

[DJ]

TBH it's all our fault for pushing him so far.

[Tellemurius]

I never said it's easy. Easy is not doing anything and expecting the problem to solve itself or to pretend there is no problem because you're hanging on right now. It's effing hard to do it, but that doesn't mean one shouldn't try it. That's one of the problems I'm pointing out, if things get tough, people back off, while it should instead be that if things get tough, people double their efforts. If we, as humanity, would learn that stopping when something gets difficult only leads to more problems, we'd be half way to paradise.


The only one who can solve our problems, the only one who can ensure our success, the only one we can rely on for anything, is oneself. Expecting others to do things for you can only lead to grief and more problems.

economists have proven you wrong man, there has to be welfare for people to aid them, yes too much is bad but none sucks, look in our history and tell me doing jackshit helped.

[Virex]

I don't think there has been a time in which people had freedom to the point I am proposing. There has always been some kind of overarching power, be it a king or a government that has been doing everything in it's power to make people economically and socially addicted to them. It's that kind of addiction exactly that's keeping people from reaching forward. (For that matter, compassion and compensation for crimes also breed a very dangerous kind of addiction. I'm fine with vengeance because people need a good incentive not to break some rules, but not treating victims as normal people will only damage them in the long run).


People can never be truly free if we keep pressing them into addictions like this. Freedom can only be attained if people can truly chose for themselves without having others say what they are, what they should do and most importantly who they should listen to or beg towards for the latest shot for their addiction.

[Tellemurius]

True justice system would believe that, but because its the premise of the hurt victim that there is charity it can't go away. your grandfather died you don't get over it instantly.

[Virex]

No, but I know my grandfather will die some day, so I can be ready for when it happens and have my things sorted out. It'll take a little time, but my life will be back on the rails sooner or later.

[Tellemurius]

No, but I know my grandfather will die some day, so I can be ready for when it happens and have my things sorted out. It'll take a little time, but my life will be back on the rails sooner or later.

exactly, shit happens all the time the charity has to stay in place. should there be a time to get over it yes, also remember that people do have morals for living, not everyone can steal.

[Leafsnail]

Not to mention that you're basically advocating crime by this point.

[Virex]

If people want charity, they're free to arrange it, and I think that there will always be some sort of charity. I myself think it's a bad idea because it breeds dependence and therefor it limits freedom, but I also believe nobody should keep people from attempting to do it if they so desire

[DJ]

Well excuse me, but I thought the whole point of living in societies is to help each other get back on our feet after we stumble. I think hermiting it out in the woods would be more suitable for you and more compatible with your values.

[Virex]

I never said I was against cooperation, I am against being forced to cooperate with people one doesn't want to cooperate with or at moments when one wouldn't want to cooperate. If that is against your definition of society, then I would say I propose a different kind of society then you envision.

[Leafsnail]

The kind that acknowledges reality and that victims aren't always to blame.

[Glowcat]

Virex has found the ultimate solution to all of mankind's problems: deny they exist.

It's the Libertarian way.

Minimalist government ideologies are simultaneously unnecessarily cruel, insanely paranoid, and hopelessly naive. A society that works together is more effective than one that does not, and in fact our entire species's civilization is built upon the collective work of other humans. That anybody truly earns everything on their own is an illusion which appears when people look at only the small scale. Ironically, the minimalist system is grossly inefficient and itself a representation of unwillingness to do what is necessary for success, exactly what its supporters claim to hate.

[Virex]

I would like to reiterate that cooperation is very important for society. But cooperation can only be successful if it is conducted on equal grounds. Currently we're all tied up in a mess of monopolies and deals with people who know that they have nothing to lose because the state will take care of them if they so much as glance at it. Or worse, we're forced to cooperate and care for people who live only to take advantage of us. Since we're forced to cooperate with them, that can't be proper cooperation. It's instead an oppression, we're being oppressed by lazy and reckless people. That's not only hurting us, but not being able to stand on equal footing with everyone means that people are actually less inclined to work together.

The kind that acknowledges reality and that victims aren't always to blame.

Victims aren't always to blame, but one should at least expect people to take precautions. Modern society strongly discourages taking precautions and even steps in if someone has been reckless or even intentionally harming herself, at the expense of people who do prepare propperly and don't try to take advantage of the system.