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[eerr]

Yes that is a bit extreme. Being a vegetarian is also no guarantee of being thin. One could eat nothing but baked beans and still be vegetarian, and you'd gain plenty of weight.

When not eating a decent amount of fat, it is physically impossible for the body to make enough fat to, well,

get fat.

Absolute fact!


If you are already chowing down of slabs of meat the beans might possibly make it easier.

carb-> fat is not an efficient transfer.

slabs of meat-> fat is a fantastically efficient transfer, by the process called digestion


I have a bone to pick with this meat-only diet.

And potatoes give you digestive problems if you eat nothing but meat all day, deal w/it.

[forsaken1111]

Alright, well I'm not arguing nutrition in someone else's thread so you win because I don't care enough to refute you.

[Footkerchief]

carb-> fat is not an efficient transfer.

slabs of meat-> fat is a fantastically efficient transfer, by the process called digestion

This part is correct, but the interaction of fat and carbohydrates after digestion is much more complicated, and the rest of your post is dubious at best.

Human fatty acid synthesis is stimulated by a eucaloric low fat, high carbohydrate diet.

Normally volunteers consumed low fat liquid formula diets (10% of calories as fat and 75% as glucose polymers, n = 7) or high fat diets (40% of calories as fat and 45% as glucose polymers, n = 3) for 25 d. The fatty acid composition of each diet was matched to the composition of each subject's adipose tissue and compared with the composition of VLDL triglyceride. By day 10, VLDL triglyceride was markedly enriched in palmitate and deficient in linoleate in all subjects on the low fat diet. Newly synthesized fatty acids accounted for 44 +/- 10% of the VLDL triglyceride. Mass isotopomer distribution analysis of palmitate labeled with intravenously infused 13C-acetate confirmed that increased palmitate synthesis was the likely cause for the accumulation of triglyceride palmitate and "dilution" of linoleate. In contrast, there was minimal fatty acid synthesis on the high diet. Thus, the dietary substitution of carbohydrate for fat stimulated fatty acid synthesis and the plasma accumulation of palmitate-enriched, linoleate-deficient triglyceride. Such changes could have adverse effects on the cardiovascular system.

Effect of Dietary Carbohydrate on Triglyceride Metabolism in Humans

When the content of dietary carbohydrate is elevated above the level typically consumed (>55% of energy), blood concentrations of triglycerides rise. This phenomenon, known as carbohydrate-induced hypertriglyceridemia, is paradoxical because the increase in dietary carbohydrate usually comes at the expense of dietary fat. Thus, when the content of the carbohydrate in the diet is increased, fat in the diet is reduced, but the content of fat (triglycerides) in the blood rises.

No common energy currency: de novo lipogenesis as the road less traveled

In the hierarchy of fuels, dietary carbohydrate appears to have a higher priority for oxidation than does dietary fat; when both are present, carbohydrate is chosen. The 2 major macronutrient energy sources (carbohydrates and fats) are not, however, interconvertible energy currencies. Fat cannot be converted to carbohydrate in animals because animals lack the enzymes of the glyoxylate pathway, and carbohydrate is not converted to fat because of a functional block of uncertain cause.

What are the implications of this model? Some conclusions should not be drawn. First, these results do not mean that extra carbohydrate energy represents "free" energy in terms of body fatness. By sparing fat in the body's fuel mixture, surplus carbohydrate energy will make people fatter, even though it is not directly converted to fat. The absence of significant de novo lipogenesis is bad news for high-carbohydrate dieters for another reason, in that the high thermogenic cost of de novo lipogenesis cannot be invoked as an energy-dissipating feature of such diets. Second, the effects of carbohydrate-rich diets on macronutrient balances should not be confused with their potential effect on plasma lipids and atherogenesis. High-carbohydrate euenergetic or hyperenergetic diets consistently induce hypertriglyceridemia, the public health consequences of which remain controversial (10).

[Haspen]

What.

US have one kind of flour? What blasphemy is this O_o

I can name 3 we use in Poland (potato flour, corn flour, cake flour), and I believe there are two (or more) other types.

Anyway: my mother tosses a brick of cold butter into a bowl, adds sugar, then gives me a wooden round-ended pestle (looks like a scepter).

Then, I grind the stuff for 30 or so minutes, until she is happy with the results.

[Rose]

Yes that is a bit extreme. Being a vegetarian is also no guarantee of being thin. One could eat nothing but baked beans and still be vegetarian, and you'd gain plenty of weight.

I will not accept anything but a real life example of a fat vegetarian, to prove your assertion.

how many examples do you want?

[Footkerchief]

US have one kind of flour? O_o

I can name 3 we use in Poland (potato flour, corn flour, cake flour), and I believe there are two (or more) other types.

I think other people explained this already, but we do have more than one kind of flour.  It's just that "flour," unless otherwise specified, usually refers to plain all-purpose wheat flour.  We still have whole wheat flour, rye flour, oat flour, potato flour, cornmeal (and cornstarch), etc.

Americans don't typically bake the same way Europeans do. You can buy different types of flour, but it's not common. When you go to the supermarket, it's just simple white "all-purpose flour" and maybe "self-rising flour" with yeast already mixed in. If you want to buy other types of flour, you can find it, but it's really an exception. Americans also don't typically eat dark bread, so there's not an abundance of dark flour.

AFAIK cornmeal isn't hard to find anywhere in the US.  Dark breads aren't that hard to find either.

[Haspen]

US have one kind of flour? O_o

I can name 3 we use in Poland (potato flour, corn flour, cake flour), and I believe there are two (or more) other types.

I think other people explained this already, but we do have more than one kind of flour.  It's just that "flour," unless otherwise specified, usually refers to plain all-purpose wheat flour.  We still have whole wheat flour, rye flour, oat flour, potato flour, cornmeal (and cornstarch), etc.

Americans don't typically bake the same way Europeans do. You can buy different types of flour, but it's not common. When you go to the supermarket, it's just simple white "all-purpose flour" and maybe "self-rising flour" with yeast already mixed in. If you want to buy other types of flour, you can find it, but it's really an exception. Americans also don't typically eat dark bread, so there's not an abundance of dark flour.

AFAIK cornmeal isn't hard to find anywhere in the US.  Dark breads aren't that hard to find either.

Aaaah. Misread then. Mea culpa.

[G-Flex]

What.

US have one kind of flour? What blasphemy is this O_o

Nah, there's plenty of flour. Obviously we're talking wheat flour here; potato flour, cornmeal, etc. are different beasts altogether, and are available.

As far as wheat flour is concerned, we've got regular all-purpose white flour, cake flour (very fine and low-gluten), whole-wheat flour, self-rising flour, and I forget what else.



Fake edit: I'm stupid and other people already covered most of that.

But yeah, corn anything is easy to find in the US. We sweeten things with corn byproducts. We're stupid like that.

[forsaken1111]

We sweeten things with corn byproducts. We're stupid like that.

It isn't stupid, just a cheaper alternative to cane sugar.

[Haspen]

We sweeten things with corn byproducts. We're stupid like that.

It isn't stupid, just a cheaper alternative to cane sugar.

We get sugar from beet root here.

Beat us

[forsaken1111]

We sweeten things with corn byproducts. We're stupid like that.

It isn't stupid, just a cheaper alternative to cane sugar.

We get sugar from beet root here.

Beat us

Does it taste funny?

I tried that new sugar alternative Truvia, tastes like licorice

[Haspen]

Actually, it's just normal sugar.

Just not obtained from... sugar canes? Whatever the plant is named.

[G-Flex]

We sweeten things with corn byproducts. We're stupid like that.

It isn't stupid, just a cheaper alternative to cane sugar.

It's cheaper for somewhat stupid reasons and we use it in far, far too much stuff. It's hard to find anything with sucrose in it anymore except where it would be physically impossible to use anything else.

[forsaken1111]

We sweeten things with corn byproducts. We're stupid like that.

It isn't stupid, just a cheaper alternative to cane sugar.

It's cheaper for somewhat stupid reasons and we use it in far, far too much stuff. It's hard to find anything with sucrose in it anymore except where it would be physically impossible to use anything else.

I tend to agree with you that it is too prolific. I thought it was cheaper because corn is easier to grow and process...?

[G-Flex]

Not sure about that, but corn is also huge in the US in general and (I think) is highly subsidized. I don't know, it's a fairly political situation, not just a simple economic one.