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Author Topic: Hi my name is a Obliza and I'm a perfectionist.  (Read 3218 times)

Scaraban

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Re: Hi my name is a Obliza and I'm a perfectionist.
« Reply #30 on: December 23, 2010, 07:48:55 pm »

Quote
Jup. You have to be more sadistic. Like "Hahaha, those dwarves are so stupid. Look at them being sliced up in tiny bits lol"
Don't start to have feelings for your your dwarves. Then you can REALLY enjoy it.

Also if you have done mistakes and the most terrible thing possible happens ("your Fortress has crumbled to its end"), you STILL have the possibility to reclaim and do it better a second time. (and imagine how good you feel when you have successfully beaten a 100-goblin siege)

I named every one of my dwarves. My best friend and room mate who I spent 95% of my time with is a Kindergarten teacher I really am not allowed to be sadistic :|
sounds to me like you either: A. need a better roommate, B. They need to lighten up, it's smileyfaces changing colors, C. Learn what to share with your roommate, or D. Some other thing I'll come up with later (possibly)
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SalmonGod

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Re: Hi my name is a Obliza and I'm a perfectionist.
« Reply #31 on: December 23, 2010, 07:53:49 pm »

It's a combination of heartbreaking and befuddling to read about the problems you face.

The best advice I can give is to simply laugh.  When things start going wrong, just stop yourself.  Take a deep breath and really think about what's happening.  Think about how comical and ridiculous it is that your dwarves are doing so stupid.  Visually imagine this event taking place, full of personality.  Laugh.

Personally, figuring things out is the most enjoyable part of any game for me.  Like I get really really frustrated with playing RPGs online because people will barrage you with criticism of "You can't build that character that way!  Go read these guides, they'll tell you how you're supposed to play, noob!"  Doesn't work for me.  If I'm told the best way to do everything before I've even begun to play, what's the point in playing at all? 

The great thing about DF is it gives you so much to learn and explore, and it's wonderful that you absolutely cannot do it with just one game.  Every embark will have different personality and show you things you've never seen before, and you'll never stop learning.  Above all, the failures where you learn the most tend to be spectacular -- great opportunities to laugh your ass off.

I see you name your dwarves somewhat meticulously?  Take it a step further.  Keep a log.  Write a story as you go.  It doesn't have to be anything elaborate.  Just take some notes about your dwarf's activities, personalities, and major events.  Personally, I find this the best way to cure the "Shit it isn't perfect gotta start over" bug.  There is drama here, and it's easy to get immersed in just like a tv show that keeps you coming back.  This is why it's so much fun to read other people's stories about playing the game.  It builds such a rich narrative if you're willing to look for it, and the failures enrich this narrative even further.
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In the land of twilight, under the moon
We dance for the idiots
As the end will come so soon
In the land of twilight

Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.

thegoatgod_pan

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Re: Hi my name is a Obliza and I'm a perfectionist.
« Reply #32 on: December 25, 2010, 08:15:04 pm »

I think the  most interesting thing about dwarf fortress is the factor of chance.  No dwarf fortress embark can give a total sense of the game, precisely because some of the best parts are those that surprise you--like a fort that has been very nice and mellow--all unicorns and friendly raccoons--getting a granite forgotten beast with deadly dust immediately after an accidental cavern breach in the new decorative statue garden. Or when your arctic water trap proves impossible because of a dwarf physics misunderstanding, so you have to figure out how to turn off temperature and use it as a simple drowning trap.  Or when cave crocodiles prove able to break through glass windows.

 Oblivion came up as a comparison several times, but I think it is misguided. Morrowind, oblivion's immediate predecessor is far closer--with it's deeper and more transgressive mod subculture and flexibility (i.e. in Oblivion you were definitely saving the world, in Morrowind--maybe you were the prophesied Nerevarine, maybe it was just an imperial plot to exploit the Dunmer, maybe both, and you could skip the main plot entirely or even murder major characters "ending" the main game per se)

Basically perfectionism is troubling you, which means the game is working--it forces awareness of certain conventions of video gaming--closed structure, completion--you can "finish" a game, some games even have percentile completions i.e. GTA 100% completed is fairly difficult but possible.  You can never 100% complete df, winning is impossible, a dead fortress remains in a mobile world which gets more sophisticated with every update.

I play df because I think it is the first game I encountered that pushed the line not just into "art", which could be said of a number of conceptually interesting games before.  But if those games legitimized the medium as artistic, the way Charlie Chaplin and Einsenstein legitimized cinema as a medium, DF goes further, doing straight-up formal experiments with video game conventions, the way Cubism experimented with conventional perspective.

Consider how it combines total graphical abstraction (ASCII) with the total structural refusal to abstract!  I.e. Every game from Mario to Halo uses some variant of the abstracting convention of "hit points".  Even games like Fallout where limb damage is possible, simply move hit points into limbs.  Dwarf fortress simply doesn't.  Hit point games need to pause and go literary to describe someone going blind, or tragically losing their ability to walk. In Df You can have nerve damaged warriors, or blind children and it will be spontaneous and utterly unpredictable, and thus utterly without pathos, realistic in the proper sense. Dwarves  don't pause when something terrible happens to them, nor does the game stop and play some dramatic music.  You stop instead, you fill in the pathos, it the opposite of cheap theater, which is what most games offer.  Consider most gaming models--extraneous elements are decoration--background--to my knowledge no other game has ever seen fit to track a blood stain, or hell, a beer stain simply because it's objective to do so. Consider dwarven art which creates artifacts which can be epic or strange or hilarious again simply by exploitation of random generation.  Or the nightmarish mishmashes that are forgotten beasts? Most games create terror by cheap horror movie tropes--giant spider, walking corpse.  Df gave me nightmares with it's many-tailed vomit monsters that are slavering.   DF is paradoxically both one of the most realistic (due to insistence on not abstracting away non-crucial elements) and most conventional (dwarves are a trope, everything is accomplished through random calculations) games out there.  It's brilliant.
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RedWick

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Re: Hi my name is a Obliza and I'm a perfectionist.
« Reply #33 on: December 25, 2010, 11:58:29 pm »

In Df You can have nerve damaged warriors, or blind children and it will be spontaneous and utterly unpredictable, and thus utterly without pathos, realistic in the proper sense. Dwarves  don't pause when something terrible happens to them, nor does the game stop and play some dramatic music.  You stop instead, you fill in the pathos, it the opposite of cheap theater, which is what most games offer.

Seriously this.  In one abandoned fort I made, a miscalculation on my part had a miner getting caught in a cave-in.  The guy was all yellow and red, but once he woke up, he kept on mining, dedicated to his job because I hadn't even placed a bed yet, let alone designated a hospital.  The second I did, he went and collapsed there for the next several months.  Now, while I could've looked at the and just thought to myself "Oh, that's just the game engine doing its thing, and I could exploit it to keep the dwarf working as hard as ever", instead I looked at it and thought "Man, that's a hell of a dedicated dwarf, finishing the job because it needs to be done and he was the only one who could do it."  I'm very much an active participant in constructing the narrative of any forts I run.  The material things that make up any given fort are just props for helping me develop a compelling story.  The dwarves are the actors.  And the whole thing is unscripted and ad libbed.
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tsen

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Re: Hi my name is a Obliza and I'm a perfectionist.
« Reply #34 on: December 26, 2010, 04:47:49 am »

The other thing about dwarves dying... It's actually an advantage once you know enough to keep your fortress alive. You get new immigrants who haven't yet made artifacts! :D
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Cthulhu

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Re: Hi my name is a Obliza and I'm a perfectionist.
« Reply #35 on: December 26, 2010, 07:24:17 am »


I named every one of my dwarves. My best friend and room mate who I spent 95% of my time with is a Kindergarten teacher I really am not allowed to be sadistic :|

Pff, like they'll even know.
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