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Author Topic: What are the indicators of an ambush?  (Read 2826 times)

AllThingsLive

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What are the indicators of an ambush?
« on: December 23, 2010, 01:40:45 am »

I'm sick of getting ambushed and losing all my woodcutters and herbalists, not to mention any pets who can't make it to the bridge in time, so are there any precursors to the arrival of an ambush?
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Acperience

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Re: What are the indicators of an ambush?
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2010, 01:44:53 am »

They like to occur around caravan time.
They like to occur when you have a lot of wealth.
They like to occur more often if you are close to a goblin civilization.
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Psychobones

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Re: What are the indicators of an ambush?
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2010, 01:48:21 am »

I'm sick of getting ambushed and losing all my woodcutters and herbalists, not to mention any pets who can't make it to the bridge in time, so are there any precursors to the arrival of an ambush?

Not really. Sometimes you'll get a rush of snatchers and then the ambush, yet other times it'll appear in the opposite order. Having a few well trained military dwarves should easily solve the issues of ambushes. I usually only have three military dwarves and by the time you begin to see ambushes they're legendary _______dwarves. A quick responding military is far superior to a heavy trap dependent defense.
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Re: What are the indicators of an ambush?
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2010, 02:01:02 am »

I beg to differ on that traps vs military point. But I'm watching a movie and too lazy to argue.
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Max White

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Re: What are the indicators of an ambush?
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2010, 02:03:18 am »

I like the military option, as it allows for anti-kobolt operations.

Psychobones

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Re: What are the indicators of an ambush?
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2010, 02:09:21 am »

I beg to differ on that traps vs military point. But I'm watching a movie and too lazy to argue.

I'll argue for you then, you're going to say you've got an amazingly powerful and repeatable trap setup, or maybe you'll say you've just got a long line of weapon/cage traps(we've all done that at some point. :D ). You'll point out that military requires putting dwarves out on the line, and they could die causing unhappy thoughts. I'll return with saying that well trained military dwarves are nigh invincible against ambushes and sieges, and they're mobile. You'll bring up traps can usually instantly neutralize an enemy, whereas military dwarves sometimes take a good few stabs to kill something. I'll point out that traps can't stop kobolds. We'll mutually agree that in the end, a little of both is best.

'bout right? :P
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Re: What are the indicators of an ambush?
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2010, 02:13:02 am »

Except if you just have a few guard animals the kobolds will run away ._.
I would've also pointed out that sometimes freak accidents kill nigh invincible dwarves.

I'm not saying I have my traps entirely replace my military, I just don't think a standing military is "far superior to a heavy trap dependent defense"
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Rafal99

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Re: What are the indicators of an ambush?
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2010, 02:16:24 am »

Goblin snatchers and ambushes always appear together. Which one is discovered first is another story... It is also possible that ambush squad will retreat while still hidden once snatchers gets killed.
In 40d they used to appear at about 10-15th day of first month of Spring, Summer, Autumn or Winter.
I think in 0.31 it was changed, they appear in the last month now, but not sure since I haven't played dwarf mode for a while. Anyway it is about the same time when caravan arrvies like someone else mentioned. Althought you may discover them much later since they move quite slowly when hidden.
Generally when you see caravan it is good time to activate your squads and set them on patrol routes. Except for winter when there is no caravan but attacks may still happen so be prepared.
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AngleWyrm

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Re: What are the indicators of an ambush?
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2010, 02:18:24 am »

I'm sick of getting ambushed and losing all my woodcutters and herbalists, not to mention any pets who can't make it to the bridge in time, so are there any precursors to the arrival of an ambush?

Ambushes occur during the third month of a season. I always set my best squad to patrol the perimeter during that month, and they mop the floor with insurgents. The advantage of taking the battle to the enemy rather than waiting for them to arrive at your door is that you can kill them before they get to the civilians which may be out doing their work.
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Psychobones

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Re: What are the indicators of an ambush?
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2010, 02:23:58 am »

Except if you just have a few guard animals the kobolds will run away ._.
And continue to return time and time again to annoy the crap out of you, plus you don't get their crap daggers to put into weapon traps at your entrance to kill snatchers. :D
I would've also pointed out that sometimes freak accidents kill nigh invincible dwarves.

Hence the word 'nigh'?

I'm not saying I have my traps entirely replace my military, I just don't think a standing military is "far superior to a heavy trap dependent defense"

In his situation it is, since he's having issues with people being outside when being ambushed. With a trap defense he'll lose pets and dwarves to those who can't make it inside in time. With a mobile military force he can head the ambush off, forcing them to fight only his military.

Anyway the original statement was directed at the context, dealing with ambushes while dwarves are outside. Hence:
We'll mutually agree that in the end, a little of both is best.
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Acperience

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Re: What are the indicators of an ambush?
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2010, 02:31:26 am »

Except if you just have a few guard animals the kobolds will run away ._.
And continue to return time and time again to annoy the crap out of you, plus you don't get their crap daggers to put into weapon traps at your entrance to kill snatchers. :D

I have a magma trap front entrance. The animals are behind the trap and when I see the kobolds running away I close the chamber and distill them into goblinite ._.

Military response time is also less than desirable unless you have your barracks right near where the woodcutters/herbalists are working. Depending on the map it can be more effective to create choke points and just lay traps down.

We'll mutually agree that in the end, a little of both is best.

Now back to Goodfellas.
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rephikul

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Re: What are the indicators of an ambush?
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2010, 02:41:28 am »

Unexpected FPS drop usually is a good indication of ambush. I've never seen this but it's claimed very often.

When you already have got ambush, thief detection almost always guarantee existence of ambushers somewhere. If you see a caravan, and havent got ambushed that season, almost 100% the caravan also brought ambushers

A good ambush detection is edge traps or edge chokepoints with a chained animal
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Max White

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Re: What are the indicators of an ambush?
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2010, 02:46:53 am »

I find it easyer to have rabbit holes running the width and lengh of the embark, where ever migrants or merchants show up, then drop the bridge to let them in, so they can make there way to the main fortress underground. Invaders are forced to try for the main gates, and therefor your 'edge detection' can be localised.

warwizard

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Re: What are the indicators of an ambush?
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2010, 02:50:47 am »

I scatter a few cage traps at natural choke points like the margins of stagnant ponds. That has saved many fleeing civilians, and also sometimes gives me advanced warning when a snatcher or ambusher is caught, the ambush is sprung, and I turn on the civilian alert
A few short walls can also be used to increase detection chances. If they are thick enough I've even seen the ambush squads retreat

If you want to metagame, see the game pause or slow down, call the civilian alert.
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Psychobones

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Re: What are the indicators of an ambush?
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2010, 02:52:16 am »

Military response time is also less than desirable unless you have your barracks right near where the woodcutters/herbalists are working. Depending on the map it can be more effective to create choke points and just lay traps down.

I guess this is where we see the difference. I play on small maps, usually a 2x2 embark, and I tend to get most of my wood from the caverns and caravans, rarely do I need to forage for food. Even if I have woodcutters outside to discover an ambush, it's not too far for my usually very agile military to get to.
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