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[ShunterAlhena]

Hi folks,

I used to play days on an end with the 40d version and was a huge fan. I finally had the time to pick up DF2010. And I had an appalling experience. I'll keep it short.

I generated the default world. Full of aquifers, almost no plot of land without a damned aquifer. OK, modded those out.
Then, next issue. The terrain finder always tells me "there is a stream named XY" here. Embark. No stream. Embark again. No stream. Embark yet again, now on a river. I get a pathetic 3-tile wide brooklet. Rivers used to be MASSIVE, for heaven's sake!

Whatever. Embark on a river. Terrain finder says "temperate climate", "heavily forested". It's spring. So I expect a lush green forest. And I get a frozen hell, with snow covering everything, including the thin glacier the game calls a river!

I won't even mention the crashes to desktop and the occasion where 18 Z-levels of ground caved in straight after embark, unleashing hordes of Wasp Devils or what the hell and slowing the game to an unbearable crawl in the very first second.

W T F?? 40d was rock stable, while in this version I can't even get to actually playing! I understand that a fresh release has a lot of bugs, but this new version was released in APRIL, 8 months ago!!

Is it the same for everyone, and you just learned to live with such issues, or is the Random Number God seeing fit to curse me?

[Neonivek]

I can't say I've had any of your issues.

How much of a vet are you? 2d vet?

[ShunterAlhena]

Nope, not that much, but I've been playing since end of 2007/beginning of 2008, so a good 3 years.

Anyway, I just flushed the whole Save folder and try again. It may have been just the random number god.

[therahedwig]

combination of things it seems.

1. Aquifer issue
Aquifers show up a lot more often on island worlds then mainland worlds.(more water=more aquifers) Hence your difficulty to find non-aquifer spots(and even then it's pretty easy to dig around them).

2. River issue.
I think you should try to look for major rivers. Last major river I embarked on was 10+ tiles in width.
I think river sizes have to do with the increase in rivers, and rivers behaving a bit more like RL rivers now.

3. Temperate climates can have longer 'winter' times.
All embarks I have been doing on temperate climates included a time of frost, many which continue in spring. Can't remember if this was true for 40d.

the last thing you mentioned is a bug, and is the random number god cursing you.

Also, if you think this is bad, try figuring out the new military :/ They may have had many bugs solved, but I still find them rather... esoteric.
You might want to check out adventure mode as well, it'll allow you to look at the new entity-sites and stuff.
ALSO, WARNING: FARMS NEED TO BE BUILD ON IRRIGATED GROUND BEFORE USE. This is a bug as well, but you can work around it easily.

[MiniMacker]

Whatever. Embark on a river. Terrain finder says "temperate climate", "heavily forested". It's spring. So I expect a lush green forest. And I get a frozen hell, with snow covering everything, including the thin glacier the game calls a river!

Sweden is in the temperate zone. We have snow until early spring.

Temperate = Mild summers, cold winters.
There's nothing wrong, here.


Also, do some reading on the DF Wikia. I spent a week before I even tried the game, just searching for information.

http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:River
http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:Climate

[therahedwig]

Whatever. Embark on a river. Terrain finder says "temperate climate", "heavily forested". It's spring. So I expect a lush green forest. And I get a frozen hell, with snow covering everything, including the thin glacier the game calls a river!

Sweden is in the temperate zone. We have snow until early spring.

Temperate = Mild summers, cold winters.
There's nothing wrong, here.


Also, do some reading on the DF Wikia. I spent a week before I even tried the game, just searching for information.

http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:River
http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:Climate

I think even a veteran wouldn't be able to foretell they'd have to re-research the whole wiki after a mere 8 months. Especially because they're a veteran.

[ShunterAlhena]

For the record, I did re-research the wiki to a degree, and I also read the devlogs every day, so I'm familiar with the changes that occurred (including the funky state of the military).

I understand the "temperate" thing now; I was accustomed to 40d where "temperate" meant a pleasant climate all year round, maybe a little frost at winter.

As for the aquifer and missing brook issues, I just generated a Large region with all the default settings (completely fresh DF download). It did ameliorate the aquifer problem. However, after embark, no stream/brook again, despite the promises. Here's my local map: ponds, yes, but no sight of the smallest, thinnest stream. And it was the same for the previous 15 tries.
http://cid-0f00b97e62433167.office.live.com/embedphoto.aspx/.Public/nostream.JPG

[therahedwig]

hm...

I've noticed that sometimes DF will say there's a stream if there's a stream in the local area(the most left window where you pick your exact location). I suspect that you have to actually embark on the visible river/stream? Because I've been succesfull in finding rivers for my maps, however your problem doesn't sound completely unfamiliar.

[ShunterAlhena]

Hm, that might be the case.

Okay, apart from these weirdnesses, how is the state of the game? Can you actually play it, or do immersion-breaking bugs prop up regularly? I'm more of a construction player, but I'd really love to build a military, explore the underground and have a hospital system.

Edit: OK, you are probably right about the brooks. The Wiki says that every type of river is visible on the regional (center) map except brooks, and brooks are sometimes visible on the local map, and they occur near streams.
This is another 40d holdover for me: there, EVERY area (or at least 95%+ of them) had a brook running through.

[nil]

Military is a huge pain to figure out but generally works (kill orders are buggy) and the new training system is generally fun and an improvement (training injuries are somewhere between extremely rare and non-existent).  Hospital care is pretty buggy; bone setting and suturing are fine (and result in a lot of cool scars over time) but surgery rarely works.

[thvaz]

The game is completely playable. There are a lot of bugs, but only a few may be gamebreaking, and seldom occur.  We had to workaround bugs in 40d, as we have in DF2010.

[therahedwig]

I believe that plaster casts still don't work and crutches can only be assigned if you kick someone out of their bed if they're otherwise recovered. I don't know about the current state of soap. Aside from that hospitals work peachy.
Military works fine, but is a bit complicate.
Dwarves won't assign new clothing and bedrooms to themselves though, this combined with the new fluids leads to naked dwarves covered in vomit and blood sleeping in your hospital. :/
And I suposse there's the case of liason dying upon arrival. Which has to do with figures not being able to die from old age in worldgen, as opossed to the main game.

In adventure mode there's still the case of missing towns for many entities...

And that's about it really. Game's fine to play.

[Cruxador]

Okay, apart from these weirdnesses, how is the state of the game? Can you actually play it, or do immersion-breaking bugs prop up regularly? I'm more of a construction player, but I'd really love to build a military, explore the underground and have a hospital system.

It's totally playable. Military and Healthcare are somewhat opaque systems, so you'll want to look them up on the wiki. Heading off a potential problem: Farming requires mud now. You can irrigate, but you can also dig down to the first underground level, which is relatively safe, and use mud there. You'll also want to use its trees.

Hm, that might be the case.

Edit: OK, you are probably right about the brooks. The Wiki says that every type of river is visible on the regional (center) map except brooks, and brooks are sometimes visible on the local map, and they occur near streams.

You're saying that you, allegedly a veteran, were unaware of that? That's pretty basic, bro. And that would explain your problem.

This is another 40d holdover for me: there, EVERY area (or at least 95%+ of them) had a brook running through.

Not really, dude. I haven't noticed any difference in how common they are.

[nil]

I believe that plaster casts still don't work and crutches can only be assigned if you kick someone out of their bed if they're otherwise recovered. I don't know about the current state of soap. Aside from that hospitals work peachy.

I have had plaster casts work, but they're time consuming and failure-prone so splints are better.  Soap works, but any soap not stored in a hospital causes job cancellation spam from uninjured dwarves trying to use it to clean themselves. But dwarves have a definite problem with not resting for surgery and provoking its cancellation; just lost my oldest, toughest axedwarf in a 25 year old after he dodged off a cliff and, after refusing to be operated on four separate times, died from the infection (btw did you guys know armor protects in falls?  he fell at least five z-levels and still crawled away; combat reports said it's b/c he took most of the fall with the artifact armor and buckler he was wearing).

You're saying that you, allegedly a veteran, were unaware of that? That's pretty basic, bro. And that would explain your problem.

This is another 40d holdover for me: there, EVERY area (or at least 95%+ of them) had a brook running through.

Not really, dude. I haven't noticed any difference in how common they are.

I haven't really either, but then I avoided (overground) rivers in both versions.  I think the false positives in the site-finder and embark screen might have at least something to do with it.

[TuefelHundenIV]

If you look at the three maps when selecting an area and look at the left most map you can move that  highlighted square which is your embark area and even increase or decrease it's size.  The region could have a river but your actual embark location won't unless you move that box.  You can move it with umhk keys. UMKH keys change the selected map size.  My wife is currently playing in for different biomes on one map.