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[beorn080]

Psychometry is front loading a tinkers chances against long term planning. Theres three data disc suppliers in the early game with a standard start, but those cost significantly for even basic gear. Sure, you can build from disc, dismantle, and go for the reverse engineer, then use the discs as trade goods, but that requires water/trade goods to start with, plus at least a level or two for reverse engineer.

Of course, for a lot of things it doesnt matter TOO much. Being able to build more then one set of Ulnar Stimulators is generally worthless early on, though it does make a decent way to turn bits into water. Being able to learn a nuclear cell could be useful, and it does feel really nice to just be able to fill out your tinker list. And it does make data discs effectively "free", since you can build one and sell it back.  Doors are, basically not an issue for the most part. HOWEVER, there is one fairly major source it opens up, and that's all the stuff on the tables with the Urshibs. That can include hoversleds and nuclear cells pretty easily, among other artifacts, and examining them has risks.

[Frumple]

Huh. Can confirm making horns your primary weapon (beta branch thing with some interesting implications) is a remarkably powerful opening gambit. Easily one of the stronger early game melee choices you can make, I think, and from what I hear it never really falls off, at least no more than melee does as a general thing.

[Iduno]

I don't know, the ability to just look at and then build grenades out in the field can be pretty crucial to survival early on. And lead slugs can definitely be a limited resource early on if you don't get lucky.

So I'd say that it feels about right to me. Useful and can help you considerably early game but hardly overpowered most runs. It *can* be OP, but mostly with luck. And luck is the most OP thing in Caves of Qud anyway.

Lead slugs haven't been rare in a long time, except in the early game where you don't normally have a gun. Killing any gun-based turret gives you a pile of ammunition.

[Frumple]

Well... rifle up does. Muskets are pretty anemic, usually sub-10 bullets. If you can consistently kill* chain turrets you're probably set on lead slugs for a long, long time. Crazy things drop a 1k slug stack per turret. I've seen comment even that can't keep up with the ammo expenditure of stuff like double chain pistol and you eventually more or less need the slug tinker, but I haven't gotten around to actually trying it and seeing so *shrugs*

* Or somehow get enough on their good side to trade... I had a game start with a turret tinker disguise armor that could do that. Made killing musket and rifle remarkably easy, you'd just buy all their ammo and kill from there, heh. Chain was still pretty risky, though. They have large enough ammo stores in their gun to still pretty easily kill you.

[Mephansteras]

I don't know, the ability to just look at and then build grenades out in the field can be pretty crucial to survival early on. And lead slugs can definitely be a limited resource early on if you don't get lucky.

So I'd say that it feels about right to me. Useful and can help you considerably early game but hardly overpowered most runs. It *can* be OP, but mostly with luck. And luck is the most OP thing in Caves of Qud anyway.

Lead slugs haven't been rare in a long time, except in the early game where you don't normally have a gun. Killing any gun-based turret gives you a pile of ammunition.

Sure, but you have to both find and kill them.
Which is not a big deal later game, but early game you're both not guaranteed to find them and definitely not guaranteed to kill them.
I've had characters get up to at least level 8 before ever seeing a turret, despite looking around ruins and whatnot.
And it's not uncommon for me to have guns pretty early on, at least revolvers or desert rifles. Heck, on game recently I even managed to find a semi-auto pistol in one of the chests in Joppa.
Not to mention the Gunslinger, who definitely benefits from having Psychometry to start out with since those pistols are pretty much the only thing they have going for them to start.

I'm not arguing that the ability to guarantee getting the lead slug recipe makes it worth while on its own, of course. I just don't find it to be a waste points given some of its other benefits. Grenades and Salve Injector recipes are both also very valuable early on. And anything that helps you survive past the starting area is a good pickup in my book.

[Iduno]

I don't know, the ability to just look at and then build grenades out in the field can be pretty crucial to survival early on. And lead slugs can definitely be a limited resource early on if you don't get lucky.

So I'd say that it feels about right to me. Useful and can help you considerably early game but hardly overpowered most runs. It *can* be OP, but mostly with luck. And luck is the most OP thing in Caves of Qud anyway.

Lead slugs haven't been rare in a long time, except in the early game where you don't normally have a gun. Killing any gun-based turret gives you a pile of ammunition.

Sure, but you have to both find and kill them.
Which is not a big deal later game, but early game you're both not guaranteed to find them and definitely not guaranteed to kill them.
I've had characters get up to at least level 8 before ever seeing a turret, despite looking around ruins and whatnot.
And it's not uncommon for me to have guns pretty early on, at least revolvers or desert rifles. Heck, on game recently I even managed to find a semi-auto pistol in one of the chests in Joppa.
Not to mention the Gunslinger, who definitely benefits from having Psychometry to start out with since those pistols are pretty much the only thing they have going for them to start.

I'm not arguing that the ability to guarantee getting the lead slug recipe makes it worth while on its own, of course. I just don't find it to be a waste points given some of its other benefits. Grenades and Salve Injector recipes are both also very valuable early on. And anything that helps you survive past the starting area is a good pickup in my book.

They've also fixed the turrets dropping huge amounts of ammo thing, so if you want to use chainguns from day 1 (because you need them for snapjaws?), you'll need to find a better solution.

Chain turrets only drop ~150 now. They're still easy enough to kill once you have the charge skill (assuming you're at all capable of melee). Otherwise you have to hope they're near walls you can hide behind while slowly approaching them.

I've also gotten moderately lucky with Baetyls and eater's nectars this True Human run, and gained a total of 6 extra stat points. This is the first character I've gotten high enough agility on to have the highest level of dual wielding with *and* high enough strength to max out the appropriate melee skill (cudgels this time, using the carbide hand bones and 2 fullerite mauls in the helping hands backpack I've got equipped) that I can remember. You get a lot fewer high-end tinkering parts than using an axe or 4 to decapitate robots, but knocked-out enemies do even less damage than enemies missing a limb. Other than head, I guess. I hate seekers when I don't have mental mirror, though. A 20 willpower doesn't cut it with them.


Edit: And I've never heard of this, which might make a good option for right after getting the robot scrambler from Joppa (before I kill as many robots for xp and parts as possible): https://cavesofqud.fandom.com/wiki/Graftek

[Frumple]

Just... it was hard not to stay quiet for the lulz, but the scrambler works on (grit gate) waydroids specifically. It doesn't do anything to your rep with robots, so, like. Most other things will still be cheerfully hostile, and it probably won't help any with the critter in question.

[Iduno]

Just... it was hard not to stay quiet for the lulz, but the scrambler works on (grit gate) waydroids specifically. It doesn't do anything to your rep with robots, so, like. Most other things will still be cheerfully hostile, and it probably won't help any with the critter in question.

Yeah, I wasn't sure if it was all waydroids, or just the ones in Grit Gate. I usually don't bother taking it, but avoiding killing robots for that long might be useful for the one bonus. It's not *that* hard to avoid enemies if you can move faster than them. The speed sandals are pretty common from snapjaws, and you'll want to kill a few of those for a level or two and some armor. Then do a quick dive to grab the minecraft guy's gear, and head to robot land for a huge boost.

If you need higher robot reputation than you start with, it might be an issue. Then you'd need to hope some bookbinders spawn in the Stilt, and you get a robot or Schrodinger page before you go insane. Maybe as a true human you could get a high enough level to rebuke it, but also without ever killing a robot? It'd be interesting to find out on a future run, anyway.

[Frumple]

It's at least theoretically possible to find a robot rep boosting disguise armor, for what it's worth. I had a fairly wild run early during the latest betas that started out with that. It was amusing to casually walk up to a chaingun turret, buy all their ammo of them, and then kill them

[Iduno]

I'm mostly finished moving apartments, so I'm back to playing games to relieve stress.

And, I just found my first treads and gun rack, and probably have enough credits to install them. If I wasn't a mutant.

Edit: And I've never heard of this, which might make a good option for right after getting the robot scrambler from Joppa (before I kill as many robots for xp and parts as possible): https://cavesofqud.fandom.com/wiki/Graftek

Looks like you need to not be in control of your body to get the Graftek to do its thing. On the upside, that means your reputation with robots doesn't matter. On the downside, you need either the Ganglionic Teleprojector or the Domination ability. I got it on my True Human, and the +huge cold resist made Bethesda Susa easier (I brought me to/above 100% resist). Then I forgot to

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

improve my rep with Mechanimists, and my game ended in the Stilt after the boss fight in Bethesda Susa. First time I've made it that far, though.

Edit: Also, all of the lower levels of the ruins near Grit Gate are full of acidic slugs. 200 xp at level 21, but they keep ruining my boots (and sometimes other equipment). 1 acid + all of the slime from a giant amoeba = huge pool of acid.

Edit2: I used an injector to go pass through the locked door into Golgotha. There was no switch to open the door. That was my only injector of that type. Luckily, the door and walls only have 50 armor. I remembered eventually that recoilers exist.

[Iduno]

I'm happy enough with my new mutant to share:

St:16 (20), Ag: 18 (20), To: 19, In: 18,  Wi: 18, Eg: 14

Carapace, Double-muscled, Triple-jointed, Multiple Arms, Heightened Quickness, and you're short 4 points (I went with brittle bones, but it's a pain when you get to Golgotha: the shortcut did 184 damage with a rubbergum injector. Glad I gained too much xp doing other stuff before I went there). Maurader for +2 St and axe skills. Carapace, sprint, and heightened quickness, and okay toughness make it easier to survive. Triple jointed lets you get the dual-wielding skills (probably all but the last one) while giving you a chance to re-use sprint or flurry, and Double-muscled gets you the axe skills and keeps your penetration values at max while giving you a source of stun. Add stopsvalin or other bucklers to your 4 wrist slots for more stun (if you buy the skill). You'll get faces from your axe skills to improve your ego (add a knollwood skull, and you'll be fine). High enough int for even a mutant to buy skills and tinkering, but I put in an attribute point early and still relied on water ritual to get me a few skills (cooking, wayfinding, tinkering, shield, but no luck on trash divining this run). I'd love dual wield from Bey Lah, but waiting to find Kindrish or a lucky rep increase isn't great for a 4-armed character, and you have to solve the theft in a particular way.

I had no luck with baetyls, but cooked my eater's nectar and got lucky (cooked injectors are 25% chance at increasing all six stats by 1 which beats the 100% chance of +1 random stat or a mutation point). I also found a somewhat-early +3 ego face on a legendary Putus Templar just outside of the Stilt.

[ThtblovesDF]

Seth made a review of the game and I actually learned something about cooking.
https://youtu.be/o_PBfLbd3zw

[nenjin]

Seth's review has almost motivated me to give this a shot.

[Iduno]

Seth's review has almost motivated me to give this a shot.

It's somewhat less of a combat game, for a rogue-like, and more about exploring and seeing what kind of weird stuff you can do. That's why I like to have high intelligence (for more skill points) and also do water rituals to gain skills for free. It gives me more options. I'll take a lot of combat skills, but I'll also throw in cooking or wayfaring to find more legendary characters and ruins. I'll try to get the pariahs to teach me trash divining so I can learn more about the history that was generated for the world.

It's also fun to try to satisfy every baetyl's (old AI) treasure-hunting request. It's not going to happen because one of them'll ask for something I can't get a lot of, but I do what I can.

[Mephansteras]

If you like Roguelike games at all it's a good pick-up. Deeper than many of them, and definitely weirder in a good way.