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Author Topic: Caves of Qud: Now in Open Beta  (Read 576226 times)

unormal

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Re: Caves of Qud: Now in Open Beta
« Reply #3030 on: July 24, 2015, 04:45:21 pm »

Try Sproggiwood on Savage if you want a challenging roguelike that's 180 degrees from old-school lack of accessibility and playstyle, without being easy.  ;)
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Gunner-Chan

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Re: Caves of Qud: Now in Open Beta
« Reply #3031 on: July 24, 2015, 04:53:06 pm »

Well to be fair I don't know if qud actually suffers from that myself. As I can't really make myself devote time to it at the moment. Just saying that in general. Doing or not doing something because "it's a rogue-like" is honestly a bit of a trap.

Compare like crawl to nethack and how the latter almost needs spoilers or multiple runs just for the sake of probing the games mechanics compared to the formers readability and feedback based systems and progression. One of those has fell into the trap and one hasn't.
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Graknorke

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Re: Caves of Qud: Now in Open Beta
« Reply #3032 on: July 24, 2015, 04:59:07 pm »

Is it really fair to say that Nethack fell into any trap, given that it's to my knowledge the first roguelike that really really took off?
Or Hack was anyway, from which Nethack is directly derived.
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Aquillion

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Re: Caves of Qud: Now in Open Beta
« Reply #3033 on: July 24, 2015, 07:02:01 pm »

As I recall, Linley specifically designed the original version of Crawl to basically be the anti-Nethack in that respect -- lots of new interesting spells (whereas most of Nethack's spells were just scroll / wand effects dating all the way back to Rogue), little to no need for spoilers, etc.

Between the two I do think Qud is closer to Crawl than Nethack, though.  The main thing you have to learn is which enemies are dangerous, and even then, it does have a vague danger readout.  There's nothing comparable to Nethack's ridiculous identify-ring-with-sink or scribe-elbereth-everywhere or know-exactly-what-to-wish-for tricks.

(There is the backdoor to the cave leading to Red Rock, I guess.  Personally I would prefer making that explicitly visible and having the questgiver direct you to it, as I said above -- I think that for new players, it's a better introduction to the game, since it delays the random variance of overworld travel a bit and lets them encounter the stone-throwing monkeys in a cave where they're less likely to be instantly swarmed.)

Another thing I think Qud would really benefit from is the ability to see the skill screen during character generation (when picking your attributes, in particular.)  Maybe even give players a few skill points to spend then, and make it an entire character generation step?  They can save the rest for after the game starts or something.  The issue is that the attribute cutoffs for skills are hugely important (especially for True Men), and there's no real way to know them in chargen without memorizing them.

The game plays fair in a lot of ways, though.  Golgotha is pretty nasty, but you have a recoiler by the time you go there...  maybe there could be slightly more signposts for dealing with Glotrot if you catch it (the bears could reasonably direct you to the mayor of Kyakukya for information on a cure, if you try to talk to one while in an advanced stage of infection); that's the most "guide-dang-it" thing in the game at the moment, I think, since finding the cure mostly depends on you having visited Kyakukya and seen the book before.

(I suspect that some of the people above who find it dull have been playing True Kin.  One of the game's major issues at the moment, IMHO, is that True Kin are definitely dull compared to mutants; anyone from the same Arcology and caste is basically going to start out exactly identical, aside from the occasional amazing piece of tech you might start with as an Artifex.)

I got disembowelled by a chitinous puma while completing the quest in the Grit Gate. Can't get how it managed to strike me down just in a single turn. Where can I purchase greater weapons and armor? These beasts lurking all around there seem to be too tough for my one-hand axe, readilly ripping my ring mail either.
In general, you should carry a gun for use on dangerous enemies, even if you're a melee character.  You can always buy one in the first town, and lots of early-game enemies carry basic ones, too.  Even with no skills, a shotgun blast to the face will help against most things.  One thing that maybe isn't completely clear at first is that attacks in Qud can get a damage multiplier if they significantly overwhelm the target's armor, so guns (which have high armor-penetration values) do a lot more damage than it might look at first glance.

(Hrm.  That's something else worth maybe making clear to new players, but I'm not sure how.)

Better armor sometimes appears at the shop in the first town, too...  or you can travel to the mushroom village past the mountains to the east, although the quest there is harder than Grit Gate, and you're not sure to find anything better there.  Also, remember that the shops restock after a while, so you should check regularly.  Remember to get boots, gloves, and a helmet, too.

If you're a mutant, you should try to pack a powerful attack mutation like the burning / freezing hands, the stinger mutations, light manipulation, sunder mind, and so on.  Alternatively, you can bring an escape option like teleportation, force wall, force bubble, or sleep gas generation.

Some skills help, too, especially proselytize (you can bring an ally or try to proselytize attacking enemies), intimidate, and menacing stare.  The shield tree is very good for melee characters if you have very high strength and enough agility to take all the agility options (I think you only need 17 agility?)

Also, it's a good idea to have decent toughness (at least 18), and to always rest until fully healed.  A chitinous puma shouldn't be able to one-hit an 18-toughness character at full health unless you're severely underleveled.

(The need to pick your stats might also make Qud a bit more intimidating at first compared to other roguelikes, thinking about it.  People with a lot of tabletop game experience will understand that everyone needs decent toughness and that you probably want to max one attribute as high as possible, but not everyone will.  Maybe the game could offer a few premade templates to help you learn the game or to let new players get into it quickly -- maybe even combine that with letting people save their own new templates?  Hm.)
« Last Edit: July 24, 2015, 07:23:31 pm by Aquillion »
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guessingo

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Re: Caves of Qud: Now in Open Beta
« Reply #3034 on: July 24, 2015, 08:01:00 pm »

Is there a list of features the steam version adds?
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unormal

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Re: Caves of Qud: Now in Open Beta
« Reply #3035 on: July 24, 2015, 08:02:08 pm »

Is there a list of features the steam version adds?

The patch notes are the main comprehensive list at the moment: http://steamcommunity.com/app/333640/discussions/0/530646080848194826/
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Gunner-Chan

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Re: Caves of Qud: Now in Open Beta
« Reply #3036 on: July 24, 2015, 08:12:57 pm »

(I suspect that some of the people above who find it dull have been playing True Kin.  One of the game's major issues at the moment, IMHO, is that True Kin are definitely dull compared to mutants; anyone from the same Arcology and caste is basically going to start out exactly identical, aside from the occasional amazing piece of tech you might start with as an Artifex.)

... This might legit be my problem. Given my own pop cultral biases (HATE THE MUTANT HATE THE XENO) might be making picking a mutant awkward... Ill try that later tonight.
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Greenbane

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Re: Caves of Qud: Now in Open Beta
« Reply #3037 on: July 24, 2015, 08:54:18 pm »

(I suspect that some of the people above who find it dull have been playing True Kin.  One of the game's major issues at the moment, IMHO, is that True Kin are definitely dull compared to mutants; anyone from the same Arcology and caste is basically going to start out exactly identical, aside from the occasional amazing piece of tech you might start with as an Artifex.)

... This might legit be my problem. Given my own pop cultral biases (HATE THE MUTANT HATE THE XENO) might be making picking a mutant awkward... Ill try that later tonight.

Space Marines are far from "True Kin", if that gives you any comfort. Genetic engineering is just controlled mutation.
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Fniff

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Re: Caves of Qud: Now in Open Beta
« Reply #3038 on: July 24, 2015, 08:56:04 pm »

Although I love playing True Kin, it'd be nice if they had their own thing going on to mirror mutations. I dunno, maybe traits or being able to purchase equipment.

Arcvasti

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Re: Caves of Qud: Now in Open Beta
« Reply #3039 on: July 24, 2015, 09:14:34 pm »

Although I love playing True Kin, it'd be nice if they had their own thing going on to mirror mutations.

I'm pretty sure they DO eventually get cybernetics, but that's more late game stuff, I think.
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UristMcDwarf

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Re: Caves of Qud: Now in Open Beta
« Reply #3040 on: July 24, 2015, 10:14:19 pm »

just now picked up the game, it's really good

fuck all types of plants, though.
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beorn080

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Re: Caves of Qud: Now in Open Beta
« Reply #3041 on: July 24, 2015, 10:45:30 pm »

I feel as though True Kin should start with a recoiler to their arcology, and a Joppa recoiler, or something like that. The recoiler would allow access to potent shops of varying degrees, as well as the purchase of goods that are otherwise rare, such as that conch the one True Kin gets.
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unormal

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Re: Caves of Qud: Now in Open Beta
« Reply #3042 on: July 25, 2015, 12:38:38 am »

*Changed the RAM warning to be incremental, only warning each time after 500mb more memory is gobbled up, so you can keep going if you're brave or annoyed or don't really care
*Upped the initial warning level to 2gb from 1.5gb
*A few small content tweaks and spelling fixes
*Fixed an unnecessary allocation during main menu rendering

So hopefully this patch will get the play experience cranked down to the point where it's fun for everyone and noone's losing games to crashes, so I can spend the weekend putting the screws down on the leaks themselves.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2015, 12:42:48 am by unormal »
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Aquillion

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Re: Caves of Qud: Now in Open Beta
« Reply #3043 on: July 25, 2015, 02:12:09 am »

I feel as though True Kin should start with a recoiler to their arcology, and a Joppa recoiler, or something like that. The recoiler would allow access to potent shops of varying degrees, as well as the purchase of goods that are otherwise rare, such as that conch the one True Kin gets.
The arcologies aren't actual locations in the game yet.  And my understanding (although this is purely headcanon, now that I think about it) is that any True Kin who leaves their arcology cannot return due to the risk of genetic corruption from radiation, chemicals, etc...  at least, I always read the decision to leave the Arcology as a big deal, that's why you don't see anyone else from those arcologies.

Although I love playing True Kin, it'd be nice if they had their own thing going on to mirror mutations.

I'm pretty sure they DO eventually get cybernetics, but that's more late game stuff, I think.
Fair warnings:

First, Cybernetics only become available very late in the game (near the end of the current main plotline.)

Second, they're generally much weaker than mutations.  Of the available cybernetic upgrades, I'd say only one of them would qualify as more than a one-point mutation, and it has significant drawbacks that will mean it's not usable for some characters.  I'm not even sure whether you're guaranteed to be able to get any cybernetics at all.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


As far as other options go...  there was some talk of a trait or perk system, though my understanding is that both True Kin and Mutants would have access to it.  That was ages ago, though, so I don't know what the plan is today, if anything.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2015, 02:21:12 am by Aquillion »
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UristMcDwarf

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Re: Caves of Qud: Now in Open Beta
« Reply #3044 on: July 25, 2015, 06:02:02 am »

Proselytize never seems to work for me, even as a high ego Priest of All Suns. Is there certain targets that are immune?
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